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Can't argue with results!

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Dec 22, 2010.

  1. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    A political argument is true or false based on its own merits. Who makes an argument has no bearing on the validity of the argument. If your having to attack the messenger and not the message you are probably losing the argument. Proof in point; here are other sources claiming Obama/Congress have not posted bills 5 days in advance:

    Liberal PolitiFact

    National Journal

    CATO
     
  2. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Also true or false on its own merits is your backstory.

    The doctorate in poli-sci is obviously a lie (the fact that you don't know that thomas.gov, which has been around for a decade, exists, kind of shoots that one down), the fact that you're an undergrad at U of A - true or lie?
     
  4. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    If it is "obviously a lie", then why do you keep interrogating me for conformation? Must not be that obvious to you.
     
  5. ChievousFTFace

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    1. Increase cap gains and dividends taxes for higher-income taxpayers - Filibuster threatened... Compromised to repeal DADT and extend unemployment benefits.

    2. Expand the child and dependent care credit - I have no kids, doesn't affect me. Hope it passes in the next 2 years.

    3. End income tax for seniors making less than 50k - I'm not old, doesn't affect me. Hope it passes in the next 2 years.

    4. End no-bid contracts above 25k - If you read the link, progress has been made.

    5. Repeal Bush tax cuts for higher incomes - See #1.

    6. Phase out exemptions and deductions for higher earners - See #1.

    7. Allow imported prescription drugs - Compromised with drug industry during healthcare reform bill.

    8. Direct the Secretary of Health and Human Services to conduct a comprehensive study of federal cancer initiatives - He doubled federal funding for cancer research.

    9. Change federal rules so small businesses owned by people with disabilities can get preferential treatment for federal contracts. - nothing yet.

    10. Double the Peace Corps - Still possible as they have seen increased funding.

    11. Allow five days of public comment before signing bills - This promise was broken. Wasn't an issue on why I voted the way I did.

    12. Tougher rules against revolving door for lobbyists and former officials - Broken promise. Don't really care.

    13. Double funding for afterschool programs - Broken promise. Hope it passes in the next 2 years.

    14. Urge states to treat same-sex couples with full equality in their family and adoption laws - I think we are seeing pro-gay rights rhetoric starting to come out of the white house more now. Hope this passes in the next 2 years.

    15. Allow bankruptcy judges to modify terms of a home mortgage - Shot down in House and Senate.

    16. Re-establish the National Aeronautics and Space Council - Broken promise. No opinion on the matter.

    17. Support human mission to moon by 2020 - Don't think there is much investor support here from either side. Promise broken.

    18. Pay for the national service plan without increasing the deficit - Haven't heard much on this lately. Broken promise.

    19. Give annual "State of the World" address - Don't care

    20. Reduce earmarks to 1994 levels - Blame congress for this one. Both parties are guilty.

    21. Create cap and trade system with interim goals to reduce global warming - KILLED by lobbyists. I'm personally against cap and trade.

    22. Provide an annual report on "state of our energy future" - Don't care

    23. Allow penalty-free hardship withdrawals from retirement accounts in 2008 and 2009 - Broken promise. Doesn't affect me, but it could have helped a lot of people at that time.

    24. Recognize the Armenian genocide - Our relationship with Turkey has seen enough turmoil over the last few years. This would only harm it more.

    25. No family making less than $250,000 will see "any form of tax increase." - This is listed as a broken promise due to technicalities. Federal income taxes weren't raised and republicans held the poor and middle class hostage to keep the tax cuts for the rich.

    26. Negotiate health care reform in public sessions televised on C-SPAN - transparency, or lack thereof, remains a hot topic.

    27. Create a public option health plan for a new National Health Insurance Exchange. - Healthcare reform wouldn't have passed with it. Was worth the broken promise to pass it.

    28. Introduce a comprehensive immigration bill in the first year - Didn't happen and we see how republicans treated the DREAM Act.

    There you go... so out of 28 "Broken Promises" we can break it down further:

    5 are due to Republican resistance.
    5 can still be kept.
    A handful are considered broken promises due to technicalities although progress has been made on the promise.
    A few can be chalked up on lobbyist power and lack of support from both parties in Congress.

    Would you like to breakdown the 7 pages of promises kept? Go ahead... it's much longer.
     
  6. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Because you have been busted, and continously reminding you and the world of your bust-age will serve many purposes over the next few hours that I plan to dwell on it prior to retiring for the evening.
     
  7. PigMiller

    PigMiller Member

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    I didn't ask for a breakdown or for you to direct blame, so no I'm not going to do that. I asked if you were personally happy with what this Congress has accomplished or are you satisfied with having 7 pages of promises kept and 2 of promises not kept, regardless of who is allegedly at fault. A promise is a promise after all.

    I'm just wondering, because I never see liberals happy. If the right got all the things Obama's gotten, they would be jumping for joy. But shoe on the other foot, the left never seems fully satisfied. Maybe you're the exception? That's all.

    Or maybe 14 page responses suffice for successfully avoiding the question?
     
  8. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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  9. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

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    If OBama can work with Republicans to reform the tax code, than he should definitely be re-elected.

    It's such a mess.
     
  10. jo mama

    jo mama Member

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    obama also campaigned on:

    a more open government - but he fought to prevent the release of millions of bush era-emails. he has fought to prevent the release of evidence of torture and even threatened other countries if they did.

    no more lobbyists or people w/ questionable ethics - but his treasury sec. is a tax cheat and he has lobbyists in his administration.

    out of iraq in 16 months - its 2 years in and we are still there and even worse, he has handed the war over to private contractors who outnumber our military by 2:1.

    not warrantless wiretapping - but he ends up expanding the program beyond what even bush did.

    closting gitmo - still open

    and as for health care reform, didnt he promise a public option? but he sold out on that from the beginning, as reported by that bastion of conservatism, the ny times.
     
  11. ChievousFTFace

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    I would prefer to break down why promises were broken rather than just say "gosh doggit... he LIED!!"... which is exactly what I did.

    I prefer not to live in a world of black and white. Also, I did not agree with 100% of what he campaigned on, specifically energy policy.
     
  12. ChievousFTFace

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    To answer your question though:

    I am happy with the promises he kept and understand that some promises had to be broken in the name of progress. It would be silly for a president to come into office and completely stick to his checklist of things he campaigned on. It's a combination of the promises and ideals along with the ever-changing conditions and priorities of the people.

    I'm not jumping for joy that the rich aren't paying more taxes to help curb the deficit, but I'll get over it.
     
  13. PigMiller

    PigMiller Member

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    I'm not arguing in this instance that he lied.

    So you're in this gray area of semi-satisfied and semi-miserable, is that it?
     
  14. PigMiller

    PigMiller Member

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    Fair enough...ignore my last post. My bad.
     
  15. ChievousFTFace

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    And above the Dalai Lama!

    "When I see a 9/11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh shut up' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining." –"The Glenn Beck Program," Sept. 9, 2005
    http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200509090003

    vs

    "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible." - Dalai Lama
     
  16. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    So it is not possible that I got my doctorate in political science at the University of Arizona?
     
  17. da Whopper

    da Whopper Member

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    Taken way out of context.
     
  18. da Whopper

    da Whopper Member

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    Unless the person making this allegation can prove that you do not have said degree, he should be banned from this forum.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    No it's probably not, given the timelines of their PhD program and the degrees they awarded during last week's commencement, though if so, we have definitely identified you as Mr. Stewart Bradley Rogers, the only male who was both enrolled in the fall term, and received a PhD in poli sci last week.

    I've got his email, should I send him one to confirm your identity?
     
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  20. tallanvor

    tallanvor Member

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    absolutely
     

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