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Canseco: McGwire used steroids

Discussion in 'Other Sports' started by Clutch, Feb 6, 2005.

  1. rezdawg

    rezdawg Member

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    Lets look at the case with Bonds. Over the last few years, he has been arguably the most difficult hitter to get out in the history of the game. Do you attribute that to steroids? The guy is a machine and I think its ridiculous that people want to put an asterik next to his name. Steroids or not, he is unreal at the plate.
     
  2. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    If true
    pretty Hypocritical of the Pres
    trying to call out Steroid users

    Rocket River
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Would not be surprised.
     
  4. francis 4 prez

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    if you're stronger, you swing the bat much faster, which means you can wait on a pitch longer and thus lay off the occasional curve ball you would've swung at earlier or catch up to a fastbal that used to blow by you. you bulk up a guy like bonds who already has an insanely good eye and hand-eye coordination and you get the best hitter of all time. there's a reason a guy like me wouldn't have a chance in the big leagues even if i had the hand eye coordination. b/c i'd practically have to swing before the pitcher let go of the ball to get my bat around. mcgwire can just flick his wrist and get the bat around. and then of course there's the fact you hit the ball further. there's a reason brad aumsus doesn't lead the league in homers and guys like mcgwire, sosa, and bonds do. b/c brad crushes them to the warning track and mcgwire misses it and hits a homer to left-center.



    at this point it seems steroids were so prevalent as to almost render their usage irrelevant. just something you have to accept since they didn't test and just something that's happened and hopefully lessened. pitchers who were assumed to be big time cheaters aren't really hammered by the public so maybe it shouldn't be any different for hitters.
     
  5. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Member

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    Bagwell was never as big as those other guys, was he? I mean besides his Popeye forearms.
     
  6. Nick

    Nick Member

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    I wouldn't be suprised, if at one point, Bags was juicing.

    As for the whole "Do Steriods really help" argument, I don't think its as simple as "Yes, if they use them they hit the ball further," nor is it as innocent as "No, its all the hand-eye coordination."

    Steriods make you bigger and stronger... fact. You can hit the ball further if you're bigger and stronger... fact. Do you need excellent patients, instincts, and hand-eye coordination... yes. And, as F4P said... could just anybody succeed on steriods?... no.

    One thing that Lance Berkman brought up one time on the radio is not just the strength factor, but the CONFIDENCE factor some of these guys get when they're juicing. If you see yourself hitting 500 ft. blasts in BP, and you're taking something, you're going to be feeling much better going into the real game... whether or not the steriods are actually helping you do things like draw walks, hit for average, or knocking them out.

    I think after all physical aspects aside, a player can only be as good as his confidence at the plate... that's why when these guys go into slumps, everything just falls apart. But, when they get on a hot-streak (Beltran in the playoffs), they're invincible... again, its all confidence.
     
  7. arkoe

    arkoe (ง'̀-'́)ง

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    Sosa's total gets a double asterisk, one for steroids and a second for being Corky the Clown.

    Bagwell's one of my favorite players, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't.
     
  8. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    What about Pitchers?

    Rocket River
     
  9. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
    Supporting Member

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    bush was hardly even involved with the team. how is he even gonna know what's going on behind the scenes in the clubhouse?
     
  10. PhiSlammaJamma

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    You can't ingnore the fact they help. How many MVPS have admitted and how many are highly probably. No impact. Please. It's obvious to me. I don't want to believe it. But I can't ignore the facts.

    As for Canseco. What reason does he have to lie. I think he may be the only one telling the truth. He's been saying the same thing for a long time. If anyone would be credible, it would be Jose Canseco. Here is a guy who cheated and could have kept his mouth shut about it. He had a lot to lose. But he opened up long before anyone else did. I believe him. Sure. There is money to be made. But he's been telling the same story for a long time. Now some people are willing to believe him. I'm one of them.

    As for Canseoc injecting McGwire. I believe it. Would you want to needle yourself? Especially if you didn't know what you were doing. I don't tell my doctor my preference for needling myself. Why. Because I don't have that preference! Why not let a professional do it. There's no way I would needle myself with something like that. Why would McGwire be willing to do it? It makes perfect sense to me.

    Confidence. Sure. I think it helps your confidence if you are on steroids. And that confidence probably does translate. It translates whether you are on steroids or not. So sure. I believe that too.
     
  11. PhiSlammaJamma

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    As for Bush knowing. Not likely. He's a few levels removed from the players. But as for the coach knowing. This is likely. He may close his eyes to it. But likely that at some point a coach would either know or have suspicions. He may even bring it up to the player in a subtle way. Like in the Pete Rose story. But nobody wants to deal with it. So it slips under the rug. Especially when there is no drug testing to inhibit it.
     
  12. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Bagwell juicing. A possibility. But I don't want to believe it. If he did there is someone who knows abvout it. You don't do that alone. I would not be suprised if he did. But until someone does come out and say something. I'm not ready to go there.
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    He was a walking tank for a few years there, he published his workout on the internet once, it was pretty insane.

    He featured the same pattern as a lot of those guys - small when they entered, turned massive, then as testing was stepped up and they got older, their bodies start to break down and they shrink.

    I think a lot of guys use roids for their rehab properties as much as they do for adding muscle, since they allow you to come back from injuries quicker.

    In a way, you can sort of rationalize that to yourself as not really "cheating" since your just giving yourself a chance to get back to normal quicker.
     
  14. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    Canseco must be incredibly bitter to out so many of his former teammates this way. He's going to taint so many careers, and make himself a pariah in the process.

    Glad he's doing it, though, for the health of the sport. The steroid policy in MLB has been, and is, a joke.
     
  15. ROCKSS

    ROCKSS Member
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    I have to think Mark took steroids at one time or another. The guy was just so big, and if you look at the pics when he entered the league he was a beanpole and then went on to become huge. I`m sure he worked his butt off to get in that shape, but I think he probably had some help also. Canseco clearly needs the money and what better way to sell your book then to name Mark and Giambi as steroid users. I used to think Bagwell would be above using the juice, but now I`m not so sure. Maybe its just the homer in me, but he doesnt seem like the guy would do that, but who knows
     
  16. Vik

    Vik Member

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    I had a conversation with a doctor/sports fan about this, and he thought that the most important advantage steroids would give to a baseball player would be the improved recovery time, both from injuries, and between games.

    According to him, if certain pitchers paid very close attention to their blood chemistry, and then used an optimal supplement routine based on that, they could comfortably throw 120+ pitches on three days rest.

    And for older hitters, a huge benefit lies in avoiding the day to day soreness that comes with being 38 and playing baseball every day. If Babe Ruth was completely fresh for every game, would he hit more than 60? I think so. Steroids aside, imagine if he laid off the booze and steaks!

    So even if the bonus strength can't be applied to baseball skills, recovery benefits are huge.
     
  17. The Real Shady

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    [​IMG]

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    hmmmm. I'm thinking all home run records should have a * except for Maris.
     
  18. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

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    That skinny little McGwire in the first picture hit 49 homers his rookie year, back in a non home-run hitting era. Amazing really. He looks like a different player.
     
  19. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    This is the most dramatic one IMO:

    [​IMG]

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    Who the hell was he kidding?
     
  20. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    Let's alter the Hans and Franz saying to "I'm going to juice you up".
     

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