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Cannot get sluttier than this...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Rockets34Legend, Nov 5, 2002.

  1. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    It's not that they should pursue a puritanical image. It's that they should be able to be appreciated for talent, smarts, creativity, and not have to try and be seen as an object.

    Madonna may be a feminist hero, to some, and her Sex book really helped that. Especially her fantasy about being raped at knife point. That's the best image a woman can portray of herself and her 'power'?

    If the women do look up to people like Christina Aguilera then women are losing the battle to be taken seriously.

    I have no problem if women or men want to go strip clubs. However, judging from everything else we are seeing of Christina, is that she's just trying for publicity. I don't care if she sings about sexuality. But none of her songs, have any groundbreaking thoughts on relationships, none of them even say anything really new about them at all. What gets me is that she's not capable of letting her talent speak for itself, and has to objectify her ownself to get any publicity. Look at the pictures and talk in this thread. It's about her sexuality.
    It's obvious from the plethera of posts like this that she isn't really taken seriously as an artist.

    And as far as sexual stereotypes goes, I think Christina fits the bill. What's more stereotyped than what she's doing?

    Really Madonna conjured up image of after image of herself. She's great at marketing, but not really on integrity. Then Madonna acted like she was receiving flak for taking her strong stance on sexuality. I actually never heard anyone ridicule her for what she did. She just wanted to act like she was fighting the power, when really the power was on her side the whole time.
     
  2. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    that is one of the most well-reasoned posts i've ever read...i can't believe it's in a christina aguilera thread....but nevertheless, the fact remains!
     
  3. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    You seem to think that power in image is somehow less legitimate than power in, what, an IQ test? A painting? Tap dancing? Your construct of what is and is not legitimate power is in itself and outgrowth of male concepts of power. When women seize that power for themselves they are often labelled 'sluts,' 'harlots,' and other demeaning terms in an attempt to seize that power back. To tell those women that they, indeed, do not have power. That they should adopt YOUR concept, the MALE concept, of a woman's place. And that they should adopt YOUR concept of what is or is not virtuous.

    Unfortunately you do not seek to interpret, only to condemn. What is a more striking example of female powerlessness in the face of patriarchal oppression than rape? What is more offensive to the male concept of power than to flip that equation on its ass?

    No, they are not. They are challenging old school patriarchal views on what power IS, and WHO gets to decide these things. Maybe you think they should all have their hair up in buns and wear glasses and burquas (sp), and hide their sexuality, but that is EXACTLY the stereotype of what constitutes a 'good' or 'nice' woman that needs to be left in the past.

    Why does ANYTHING she does have to be 'new' or 'groundbreaking'? In fact, responses like your indicate to me that what she is doing is not an 'everyday' or 'accepted' occurance, which is exactly the point.

    Uh, yeah. Its about her sexuality. Its about her power. And that public display of her sexuality/power dynamic makes you very uncomfortable. It makes you declare out loud that women should not do these things. They should be 'nice' girls who quietly pursue their studies without upsetting you, and without bringing their sexuality into the public domain.

    She is taken seriously. You don't take her art seriously because you are so uncomfortable with her actions. They don't fit into your patriarchal worldview and so you attack her as 'untalented' and 'unoriginal' and you want her to do ANYTHING but expose her sexuality.

    You are the one that's sterotyping it as worthless and demeaning.

    Uh, what world do you live in? Do you really think women 'have the power on (their) side? No doubt she's (Madonna) been great at marketing her image, but its an incredible stretch to say that she has not challenged traditional patriarchal views on women or sexuality or art.
     
  4. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

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    Do you know what it feels like for a girl? Do you know what it feels like in this world?
     
  5. mateo

    mateo Member

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    It can get sluttier. I was at Rain in the Desert at the Palms this Saturday and in Oscar DeLaHoya's suite next to ours there was a wonderful display of female bonding.

    I had absolutely no problem with that whatsoever. God I love Vegas.

    I hate that I left the digital camera at the hotel.
     
  6. Master Baiter

    Master Baiter Member

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    blah blah blah, I see a bunch of garbage talking. where are the pics?
     
  7. 3814

    3814 Member

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    just look through the first couple pages. or search christina aguilera on the site...there are lots of pics that people have posted.
     
  8. FranchiseBlade

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    It's not my male concept of a woman's place. And I'm not questioning her virtue. I don't care if she wants to make out with women, or go to strip clubs. I won't think less of her doing it, except that it's done as a publicity stunt. How is anyone going to take her music seriously when the only way she can sell it is by over shadowing it with these kinds of stunts. It's not because I think she's immoral that this stuff bothers me. It's because she's more of a clown show, than a musician, and she's doing it to herself.
    Madonna doesn't turn the rape thing on it's ass. Instead she has a fantasy of being raped at knife point. I don't even care if that's really her fantasy, but to say it empowers women in any way is way off base.
    Christina is playing into the stereotype, of the only thing women are good for is their body, or sex. She certainly isn't emphasizing her music. In fact she's overshadowing it. She's the stereotypical showgirl sexpot. She's doing it to herself. Women who don't want to hit a glass celing in their career are being shown by Christina that sex is the only way to get around that. If a girl isn't as attractive by societies standards but makes great music, what message does she get from Christina? The message is that ideas and talent don't matter as long as you have a pretty face, and a good body.

    Well Originality is part of what makes good art and displays talent. If women look up to Christina they only message they get is they have to be pretty or have a good body. Substance obviously doesn't matter. This goes back when mothers only taught their daughters beauty tips, and they weren't encouraged to go to many colleges, just to look pretty for the men. That's what Christina is doing on a grand scale.
    I never once said that they should be nice girls. Hell I like women who turn things on their head. I respect people like Janice Joplin, who just did things her way. I don't want things nice and easy. I think Michelle Yeoh rocks because she did incredible stunts. I was a fan of the Plasmatics, that had Wendy O' Williams often topless cavorting around. One of my favorites is Souxie from the Banshees. She certainly doesn't fit into a patriarichal view of the world. That's not what I'm talking about. But all of those people have something else going for them. None of them were trying to make it on looks alone.


    I don't care if her sexuality comes out. Kim Deal of the breeders lets sex ooze through some of her music, and I love it. But that's not her only selling point. The problem with Christina is that she's not just naturally letting her sexuality go where it will. She's conjuring it up as a gimmic to sell records and keep her face in the media. It's not organic in the least.

    Christina is voluntarily playing the blonde little sexette, with not substance behind her. That stereo-type goes back ages. It's nothing I'm trying to pin on her.
    I live in a world where the media absolutely adored Madonna for her choices in showing her sexuality, but she tried to play it off as if she was doing something so rebellious and risque. And it worked, despite the fact that nobody really criticized her. They all told her she was great, and doing something new. Mae West had done it long before her though, as did Marilyn Monroe, Jane Mansfield, and a score of others. Not all were as savy about it as Madonna, but I don't think that really makes her great for the women's movement.

    In my opinion putting substance over flash where women are concerned is far more against stereo-type then women who pidgeonhole themselves as nothing more than sexual objects.

    Let me reiterate. I don't mind sexuality in women at all. In fact I love it. But when that's the whole act, then I think it's reverting back to that age old stereo type.

    I'm not telling Christina to be quiet and get into the kitchen or any of that bull. In fact I'm for an ERA, I'm against the pay disparity where women are concerned etc. In fact by putting her sex kitten act out ahead of her music, it's Christina Aquilera who's enforcing the women should be seen and not heard view of the world.
     
    #68 FranchiseBlade, Nov 14, 2002
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2002

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