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Cancel Culture: “It should be banned”

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Carl Herrera, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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  2. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    A story as old as time. Happy when we do it, hate it when they do it.

    Cancel culture is the Patrick Beverley of politics.
     
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  3. davidio840

    davidio840 Contributing Member

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    Carl is on a mission to start as many D&D threads as he can. Go outside for a few minutes a day.
     
  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    PBev actually works hard for his results.

    Cancel Culture pushers are a bunch of digital floppers running a glamorized snitching/shame campaign with no real connection or empathy for their targets. The notion that one action defines a person enough to destroy their lives is why all excons face an uphill battle for normalcy, warranted or unwarranted.

    Not a fan.
     
  5. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    I'd disagree that it's so simple. On one hand, I am a very pro-free speech, social libertarian on many issues. On the other hand, there's the reality of accepting companies/people as groups have the right to free speech just as much as individuals. Hence to spoof thread title "cancel culture should be banned" if one thinks that then congrats they are what they hate, right?

    This has to be an issue by issue thing, like who doesn't support canceling Jared from subway, and Cosby for example? How about when the NBA canceled Donald Sterling? How about Christopher Columbus? Nick Cannon? A descending level of questionability from that list of names, the first couple of names no question everybody agrees to cancel them, but the last couple there is room for debate for different groups of people.
     
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  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Jared and Cosby are convicted criminals. They went into court innocent and were judged guilty by their peers. The fact you put them in the same sliding scale is the issue. The act has become weaponized against people for any and every offensive infraction that can't be solved by courts. It's part vigilante justice, part trial by opinion. I guess the difference between media demagogues of old vs what's happening now is that anyone with internet access and a camera can raise a pitchfork.

    The internet overrates what embodies "cancel culture" (exposing someone's digital record for anything offensive, no matter how old or out of context) by the initial inroads it has made in MeToo and BLM, but its use as the default option in the guise of Truth to Power has made it more daily spectacle than a true cure for what either movement is pushing for. Was Kevin Hart an unrepentant monster that deserved the boot from hosting the Oscars?

    Louis CK was a freak who abused his power. Did Aziz need to be exposed for a bad date? Do all white people need to shriek in fear when a camera owned by a minority is busted out for a bad altercation? Should they be fired for every moronic thing they do in the heat of the moment like a lot of people in that Karen thread? Does that really topple the White Establishment, or does it harbor hidden resentments that fester into something utterly divisive?

    What happens when Moore's Law makes deepfakes accessible by app? Put up more drones and cameras for a consensus?

    Big brother watches you. Little bro uploads your **** ups. Like/Unlike if you think the suspect has been a bad boi.
     
  7. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Stuck in the north woods with Rockets audio
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  8. ThatBoyNick

    ThatBoyNick Member

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    Okay so we got somewhere, convicted criminals should be canceled (if the crime heinous). Just because Cosby is convicted doesn't mean his shows couldn't still be playing, and I don't think Jared will ever get an acting job again once he's out in 10 years.

    How about Donald Sterling? I see you didn't reply to this one lmao. This dude used some words in a private phone call and was forced to sell his team. He was big-time canceled by the NBA. Are people who go on really awful racist rants allowed to be canceled? Personally I think so.

    Like, I do find it a little offensive personally that Nick Cannon is still going host a TV shows after publically saying white people are lesser than and closer to animals, that's just awful racism, but overall I'm never going to be the type of person to care enough to do anything about it. I'm for free speech, the man don't belong in jail by ANY means, but it's the peoples free speech to say "Hey this dude on my favorite TV show makes me uncomfortable after what he said", and in his case clearly not enough people feel that way.

    I don't know enough about Aziz. What Lous did was sketchy and up for debate, and totally agree Kevin Hart **** was stupid as hell, but Kevin wasn't canceled he's still the biggest actor out right now.

    Survalince is a very different thing, I'm in agreement with you that we need much better protection, I'm not okay with facial recognition, gov and companies having access to our messages and phone calls / private info, and I'm not okay with a job pulling up a tweet from when you were 12 years old and firing you, what I am saying is that there are levels and legitimacy to some people being canceled.
     
    #8 ThatBoyNick, Aug 9, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2020
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  9. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Stuck in the north woods with Rockets audio
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    "Cancelling John Marshall? Will the Great Chief Justice be given the Roger Taney Treatment?"

    https://reason.com/2020/08/07/cancelling-john-marshall/

    excerpt:

    If Marshall is cancelled, who is next? Earlier this spring, I started a spreadsheet that listed all of the justices, and noted possible grounds of cancellation. As a threshold matter, there were personal concerns.
    1. Did the Justice own slaves, fail to emancipate slaves, engage in business or legal transactions involving slaves?
    2. Did the Justice engage in other forms of personal bigotry? (Justice McReynold's antisemitism comes to mind).
    3. Did the Justice personally support eugenics? (Holmes, etc.)
    4. Did the Justice personally advocate for gender inequality? (Justice Brandeis's famous brief in Muller v. Oregon would fit the bill)
    5. And so on.
    Then, I considered whether the Justice voted the wrong way in cases that involved a host of hot-button issues:
    1. Slavery (Prigg, Dred Scott, and others).
    2. Native American rights (Johnson v. McIntosh, and others)
    3. Jim Crow (Cruikshank, Plessy, and others)
    4. Racism against other groups (the Insular Cases, the Chinese Exclusion Cases, Justice Harlan's Plessy dissent).
    5. Bias against women (Bradwell v. Illinois, Muller v. Oregon, Adkins v. Children's Hospital, and others.)
    6. Eugenics (Buck v. Bell).
    7. Discrimination against gays and lesbians (Bowers v. Hardwick, Baker v. Nelson, and others).
    I abandoned the project because I'm not sure any Justice could survive the cull. On the current Court, the Roberts five are cancelled many times over. Shelby County. Trump v. Hawaii. Espinoza. And so on.

    What about the Court's current four progressives? Even the saintly RBG has some difficulties. For example, Justice Ginsburg wrote the majority opinion in United States v. Virginia. Her opinion stated that the Virginia Military Institute could separate students based on their "physiological differences." She wrote, that VMI "would undoubtedly require alterations necessary to afford members of each sex privacy from the other sex in living arrangements, and to adjust aspects of the physical training programs." I'm not sure if those statements would be deemed transphobic. Justice Breyer joined that opinion.

    What about Justice Kagan? Her moderation in some religious liberty cases, such as Little Sisters of the Poor and Our Lady of Guadalupe, could be grounds for cancellation. I think Justice Sotomayor could possibly make the cut, but she has declined to dissent from some death penalty cases that involved racist prosecutions.

    I do not envy a Biden administration that would have to select a new Supreme Court justice. I'm not sure if there is any nominee who could satisfy every single interest.​
     
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  10. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian
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    This was always a strange subject to me...first time I thought about it was thinking back to my days playing pick up ball in churches. I’d walk by bulletin boards in every church that listed products and companies to not use because they were anti-whatever religion the church was.

    Isn’t “cancel culture” the same thing...just people trying to boycott someone or something because of some perceived slight.

    mid you get bad service at a restaurant and decide to never go back, are you “cancelling” that restaurant.

    Maybe I’m not understanding it correctly, but aren’t people allowed to make choices based on their beliefs? Isn’t that just as much free speech as the companies that provide the service?
     
  11. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian
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  12. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    I very much agree with this post.

    As I've said our culture is at a dangerous time when merely for one post or a few seconds of video someone's can lose their livelihoods and worse. This is a total lack of perspective and zero tolerance policy that isn't making us a better, more tolerant and understanding but instead more fearful, bitter, and more divided society. Everyone makes mistakes, says dumb offensive or both things. For many of us we were lucky to not have come of age when social media and ubiquitous cameras were a thing. Further because we have so much media the pace of things are so much faster so there is a quicker rush to judgement and it's easier just to cancel someone and then move on to the next outrage.

    I agree there are people who should be "cancelled" but to me those are people who are actually causing harm. Cosby was harming people. Jared was harming people. Harvey Weinstein was harming people. Stirling was the owner of the Clippers and in a position where the power he had was causing harm. In terms of the organization of both the team and the NBA it's hard to separate out an owner from the organization.. That is far different though than a contract photographer making one post. This is why I talk about perspective. Bill Baptist isn't Donald Stirling nor is his offense the same. One is a team owner and one is a contractor. One made one posts where as there was a long record of offensive statements that Donald Stirling made. Yet it took much longer and far more handwringing to get rid of Donald Stirling than it did Bill Baptist.

    Cancel culture is often portrayed as speaking truth to power and going after the Harvey Weinstiens but very often those who have the least power get hit by it. As several posters noted in the Bill Baptist thread that any company would terminate him. It's just easier..

    While I agree what Bill Baptist posted was offensive because of the swift nature of cancel culture there are cases where people "cancelled" from people jumping to conclusions based on incomplete information. There was a case a couple of years ago where a manage at a Chipotle in St. Paul was fired for not serving some black customers. When the report came out the outrage was swift and Chipotle did what any company would do and terminated her. It turns out after weeks later that those customers had been notorious for dining and dashing and that the manager had been warned to not serve them.

    We need to get past a culture that encourages making damning snap judgement on people. No one's life should be defined by one post or a few seconds of video but that is where we're at.
     
  13. NewRoxFan

    NewRoxFan Contributing Member

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  14. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian
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  15. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    Dude well said.
     
  16. EddieWasSnubbed

    EddieWasSnubbed Contributing Member
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    Do we really need to cancel people or things at all? That is the problem. If you don't like or value someone's opinion because of past actions, don't pay attention to them. The world is a large place. There's no reason you ever need to run into Cosby, Jared, or Nick Cannon again if you don't want to.

    Learn from the past, have an opinion, let that opinion be yours, but don't stifle things in order to affect others' opinions. That's Nazi stuff.

    It's the same as playground bullying. It's stupid, ineffective, and counter to the idea of liberalism. Yes, cancel cancel culture.
     
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  17. jiggyfly

    jiggyfly Member
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    Ha!

    Some people just cancel themselves.

    When are people gonna learn that just because Trump can get away with anything that doe not mean you can.

    What did he think was gonna happen?
     
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    We might need to define "cancel." For current people alive I would consider it someone losing their job and / or that they had to move from where they were living. Not just that they get criticized. If I remember it correctly the term came out from Roseanne Barr being terminated by ABC which led to the literal cancellation of "Roseanne."

    For historical figures that's harder to say. Just because Columbus got his statue torn down in St. Paul i don't think means he was cancelled. I would think historical cancel might be something where they are stricken from the history books. The closest I can think of and I admit is a very inexact comparison would be how later Pharoahs struck Akhenaten out of Egyptian history or Soviet leaders air brushing out purged party officials.
     
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  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It's up to a private company to decide if they want to hire abject anti-semties and racists like Nick Cannon.
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Trump's support is partially due to a counter reaction to "cancel culture". Many of his supporters say they support him because he is "saying what he really thinks" with no fear of repercussions. That is very appealing to people who feel they can't express themselves out of fear..

    This is why I say rather than making us more understanding or tolerant it's dividing us more. Those who are being canceled aren't really learning anything except don't say, post or do anything remotely controversial or else the social media mob will come after them. There is no reason to reflect on your views consider different perspectives but just keep your views to yourself. That's just fear not understanding. On the other side because people demand safe spaces and don't want to get triggered we can't have a dialogue. It's zero tolerance. That person did something that offends a lot of people so get rid of them..
     
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