Canadian Government-Sponsored Study Urges Polygamy Legalization

If you are going to legalize all forms of sexual conduct and lifestyles and become a 'permissive' society, then polygomist will no doubt have to be included.

Afterall, the liberal side of the argument is that all discrimination against minority rights is wrong, right?

America should be interesting 20 years from now...

 

Sounds like a great wholesome place to raise the kids. legal sex clubs, legal weed, polygamy. Why don't they just adopt Holland's consitution and be done with it?

 

Yeah because Canada has so many social problems.

 

you're right, we should all be like Canada. I would love to have my economy be so weak that everytime my neighboring country gets into a little recession, my economy is screwed. I would love to be so dependent on food exports to my neighboring country that even though some of my cows have mad cow disease, i say, "hey man, it's not a problem, buy more canadian meat!" and then grovel to lift that ban. And if grovelling doesn't work, then I throw a political hissy fit.

yes, we should all be like Canada

 

I never said that Canada was perfect.

You implied that Canada was not a good place to raise a family. I do not know much about the economy of Canada so I can't say much about it. I do know that they have little to no crime. I know that they have little poverty and everyone has medical care available to them. From what I do know about Canada, it sounds like a pretty decent place to raise a family regardless of some of the ideas that they deem legal (and some that are not, i.e. gun control).

I apologize for the sarcasm in my previous post.

 

i was being sarcastic too, well to a certain degree. The place has its good points, but the direction of the government makes me uncomfortable. If I were to raise a child there, what would it be like in 15 years?

 

Is Canada much different today than it was 15 years ago? Serious question, I really do not know. My intital reaction is no.

 

Hotballa:

I have started a response about four times now, and each time I get sidetracked due to the immense number of silly things you wrote above.

So bare with me, and I will try to concisely state my issues - but it's very difficult as there are so many.

Your tonality seems to imply that canadian adults are incapable of making rational decisions. I am not sure what you prefer, but I can assume you favor government regulation of such activites. Of course I disagree, for example: Sex is an adult decision, and is none of the governments business. If a person wants to have group sex, more power to them - doesn't hurt me. Recreational drugs are harmless, but the "war on drugs" is a societal disaster. Huge prison populations force real criminals out on the streets quicker and criminalizes what basically amounts to nothing more than the occasional toke. Again, rational adults making there own decisions. Polygamy, like gay marriage is either a state or a church issue. If it's state - the government should really be impartial to an adult decision. If it's spiritual - different church's can embrace polygamy or forbid it - their call.

As for kids - you seem to conceitedly imply that the american situation is so much better. As master baiter already mentioned - that's really ridiculous as canada has less crime, and a far better social system (give or take - this might be debated).

What's more, the combination of these two ideals you espouse (government legislation of morality and american puritanical bigotry) results in some painfully thick irony. Our corrupt government legislating morality? Our bigotted public criticizing others? Yuck.

Perhaps allowing adults to be adults and handle their own business would be better for kids in the long run. Perhaps personal responsibilty would no longer be a faded memory, and individualism would reassert itself.

Then again, the concept of an intelligent secularist nation is uncomfortable for some.

As usual hotballa, I'm not calling you out - just presenting the other side - and asking you to tone down the "high-falutin' morality" voiceover.

 

hey Rhad,

regarding polygamy, my personal opinion of it is that I can't see it being helpful to have 2 or 3 wives with different kids. There is bound to be jealousy, and history has shown that the worst kind of feuds are family feuds. I just think that the most healthy environment for a kid is a loving set of parents. I'm not sure you can get that when your dad has 2 or 3 other wives to take care of.

the sex clubs issue. I have certain morals that I would like to instill in my kids. One of them is sexual responsibility, which goes hand in hand with some sort of sexual repression. The government treating sex clubs the same as any other establishment definetely goes against the values I want to teach my kids. They are consenting adults fine, but I would rather raise my child in a different environment, that's all.

I don't imply the American situation is better, btw. Frankly I think it's just as bad, but in different ways. IMO, a sexually promiscous kid is just as bad as a often arrested kid.

I'm not trying to imply I'm a saint or anything, I just know the mistakes I made in my life, and would like my children to be able to avoid them.

 

I agree, but I also don't know. I certainly have numerous concerns similar to yours. I sure as hell don't like the idea - I don't think it feasible unless we took a serious step backwards w/regard to women's rights...

That being said - if somebody wants that - who am I to forbid it? Or legislate it?

And I think that's excellent. Seriously.

Well - I don't think sexual promiscuity is so much less frequent in the states, even with all the laws and programs and rhetoric...

And that's cool. The tonality just bothered me. Sorry if I went overboard.

 

yeah I know I came off harsh, it's just it seems like everytime I read something about Canada, they keep adding another law that makes me go "why?"

The problem with arguing with you is that we often come to an agreement 1 or 2 posts into it.

As for the polygamy thing though, I personally would still want the government to keep lgislating and forbidding it, because I think it can cause harm to society in some degree...I am only going to speak from the perspective of if a man has multiple wives, since I think historically the other way around is nowhere near as prevalent... I think if you allow this kind of thing, it objectifies women, and just seems to encourage its male and female citizens to think of women as pokemons to be collected. There might not be as many polygamists, but if you allow it, the spirit of it will be a bad effect on the way we view and treat women. Now granted, people will say, noone is forcing these women to marry one guy, but then noone really forces a women to be a reluctant stripper either. Maybe she feels she has to work at a seedy place as a source of income, just as she feels she has to marry a well off guy for whatever reason. I hope you cann see where I'm going with this.

 

I wholeheartedly agree. It's not a cut-and-dry issue for me either...

 

The article seems to be more of a condemnation of polygamy and recognition of the harms it often has on women. Decriminalization here seems to be the authors suggestion as to how address the problems that are inherent in providing spousal rights to someone who is not legally a spouse. I didn't see any endorsement of polygamy there.

It's also a report by a couple of university professors...not exactly a policy statement by the canadian government.

And the Canadian economy is doing just fine. Surplus budgets and a currency that has significantly appreciated to other currencies of late.

(the issue is at the forefront, in part, because of a very shameful situation in Boutiful BC where the small town is essentially run by a polygamous sect. Young girls being forced to marry much older men...brainwashing...and general craziness. Polygamy isn't a big deal with the hedonists. They can choose to do as they like. It’s the more 'structured' relationships (be they cults, religions, etc) that are much more complicated.

 

I agree. I think it is similar to the idea of legalizing drugs so that they can be regulated versus a black market type of system.

Sometimes the means to an end seems wrong but if it creates an atmosphere that is better for all, who really cares.

 

First, I barely have enough energy and money for my one wife and two kids. More than that and I'd have to visit a "retreat" every so often, not to mention spending every bit of extra cash on Viagra.

Second, the idea of polygamy can be rationalized, but having spent some time in a bunch of small communities in the west, I have yet to see a polygamous husband who wasn't a jerk or a polygamous wife who was not beaten down emotionally... it's like they have no joy in their lives. And there is no way you can raise kids in a culture of polygamy without some (if not most or all) of them having only a superficial relationship with a stressed for time/authoritarian father. Of course, perhaps all this is because of the unique religious and cultural baggage that most polygamists in this country bring with them and I'm certainly looking at the issue through this prism.

My personal thinking is that a wife shouldn't be a notch on a belt and kids are the priority. I think "quality" time is a bunch of hooey... I like to spend as much "quantity" time with my daughters as I can, whether we're playing in the park or dressing up "Polly Pockets" or just sitting around reading. I don't see how you can give kids a good idea of love, prepare them for adulthood, and emotionally support your wife when you have a bunch of wives and even more kids. Not to mention I couldn't stand being married to a meek or subserviant woman.

 

No one wants a polygamy case in front of the US Surpeme court because it would have a very good chance of winning based on religious freedom. So Glass Houses folks.

 

Polygamy has already been in front of the US Supreme Court, and lost. There is a substantial body of work (studies) that indicate polygamy has extremely deterimental effects on the second + wives of a polygamist, as well as on the children that come from the second + branch. You'd be hard pressed to find a more drastic model of patriarchal oppression.

OTOH:

what's the karmic penalty for multiple wives?



multiple mothers-in-law

 

I believe the last time any sort of polygamy case made it to the Supreme Court was 1947. Compare that to how many times the Supreme Court has heard a Roe v Wade case.

 

I agree and which is why I wonder why any guy would want multiple wives. I think some men are fascinated with the idea of having a younger more attractive women and then a more mature women to handle the child raising. The problem then would be what happens when you gotta support both and both have claims on you and your property?

I'm somewhat a cynic on marriage and have been thinking more and more that marriage should be taken out of government's hands and instead focus on contract law and leaving it to religions to sort out. That wouldn't mean that kids don't get protection and parents should still have legal obligations to their kids but other than that the rest is contracturally negotiated.