Can We Win a Title With Francis as the Point Guard??

His assist to turnover ratio is better than that of Francis

1. Damon Jones (Milwaukee Bucks)
2. Jason Williams (Memphis Grizzlies)

 

WE're comparing Lopez to SF? Doesn't this belong in the Francis for Ginobli thread?

 

2003-04 Regular Season Assists Per Turnover
Player G AST TO A/TO
1. Damon Jones (Milwaukee Bucks) 18 81 16 5.06
2. Jason Williams (Memphis Grizzlies) 15 106 24 4.42
3. Eric Snow (Philadelphia 76ers) 20 132 32 4.13
4. Jeff McInnis (Portland Trail Blazers) 16 77 19 4.05
5. Gary Payton (Los Angeles Lakers) 19 124 31 4.00
6. Reggie Miller (Indiana Pacers) 18 61 17 3.59
7. Mike Bibby (Sacramento Kings) 16 102 29 3.52
8. Rafer Alston (Miami Heat) 18 60 18 3.33
9. Nick Van Exel (Golden State Warriors) 9 56 17 3.29
10. Stephon Marbury (Phoenix Suns) 17 143 44 3.25
11. Sam Cassell (Minnesota Timberwolves) 18 129 43 3.00
12. Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets) 17 155 52 2.98
13. Mike James (Boston Celtics) 18 83 28 2.96
14. Howard Eisley (New York Knicks) 19 79 27 2.93
15. Baron Davis (New Orleans Hornets) 19 163 56 2.91
16. Jon Barry (Denver Nuggets) 18 51 18 2.83
17. Carlos Arroyo (Utah Jazz) 11 67 24 2.79
18. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 16 86 31 2.77
19. Earl Boykins (Denver Nuggets) 18 71 27 2.63
20. Michael Finley (Dallas Mavericks) 19 57 22 2.59
21. Damon Stoudamire (Portland Trail Blazers) 16 96 38 2.53
22. Kenny Anderson (Indiana Pacers) 19 68 27 2.52
23. Kerry Kittles (New Jersey Nets) 18 49 20 2.45
24. Alvin Williams (Toronto Raptors) 18 66 27 2.44
25. T.J. Ford (Milwaukee Bucks) 17 101 42 2.40
26. Steve Nash (Dallas Mavericks) 18 131 55 2.38
27. Charlie Ward (New York Knicks) 19 108 46 2.35
28. Kevin Ollie (Cleveland Cavaliers) 19 58 25 2.32
28. Emanuel Ginobili (San Antonio Spurs) 19 88 38 2.32
30. Anfernee Hardaway (Phoenix Suns) 17 45 20 2.25
31. Anthony Johnson (Indiana Pacers) 18 51 23 2.22
32. Brent Barry (Seattle SuperSonics) 15 77 35 2.20
33. Jacque Vaughn (Atlanta Hawks) 19 67 31 2.16
34. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 20 112 52 2.15
35. Speedy Claxton (Golden State Warriors) 16 53 25 2.12
36. Jamal Crawford (Chicago Bulls) 16 85 41 2.07
37. Vlade Divac (Sacramento Kings) 16 86 42 2.05
38. Tony Parker (San Antonio Spurs) 12 53 26 2.04
39. Doug Christie (Sacramento Kings) 16 51 26 1.96
40. Raul Lopez (Utah Jazz) 17 72 37 1.95
40. Tyronn Lue (Orlando Magic) 18 72 37 1.95
42. Andre Miller (Denver Nuggets) 18 95 50 1.90
43. Karl Malone (Los Angeles Lakers) 19 77 41 1.88
44. Mike Miller (Memphis Grizzlies) 17 69 37 1.86
44. Latrell Sprewell (Minnesota Timberwolves) 18 67 36 1.86
44. Luke Ridnour (Seattle SuperSonics) 15 39 21 1.86
47. Darrell Armstrong (New Orleans Hornets) 19 59 32 1.84
48. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 18 82 45 1.82
49. Tracy McGrady (Orlando Magic) 17 90 50 1.80
50. Milt Palacio (Toronto Raptors) 17 70 39 1.79


He is not even in the top 50 for Christ's sake.

 

Loooks like Garnett for Lopez or Ginibili will happen soon. Or maybe Orlando will get to them first with Mc Grady ...

 

In terms of PG ability, yes. If you want to talk about vertical leaps, then sure, Francis takes the cake. But since when does a high jump make you a better/smarter player. (better in terms of betterment of the team, which, last time I checked was the role of PG's and leaders alike/ Francis has neither of the characteristics)
The sad part of this is that many of you here claim that he is so great! My question to you is, if Francis is so great, why is growing sentiment among the Houston fans wanting to get rid of him and why are we even comparing him to rookie pgs in the first place????

 

I said before JVG arrived that his style of ball and Francis' style are incompatible JVG's system requires a "playmaker" that can make a timely accurate intrance pass, see the whole floor, look for the open man, consistently nail the mid to long range jumper, etc. (Nash). This is not Francis' game and he looks really awkward and uncomfortable in JVG's system. Francis has "streetball" instincts which do work well in a structured system. This is Ming's game but the team does not have the type of guards to accentuate his performance. Plus, Ming is not playing up to standard at present. Will Francis take us to a championship? No. I doubt that in his present role he can take us anywhere but to "disappointment city."

 

I’m starting to have my doubts. Definitly not if you mean he has to run the point in a traditional way. If there is a trade, I’d rather trade Francis then Mobley. IF that is we can get a good floor general type pg ( have no thoughts as to who that would be), and a rebounding PF.

 

JVG and almost everyone says theyn do not have a true PG offense so we don't need a true PG. Who plays a true PG anymore anyhow? No one, not even NJ.

 

That actually makes Steve look even worse.

 

I agree. So let's fix it. Put JJ at the "point" and let Steve and Cat run around Yao/Cato/Taylor picks.

 

Both of you are on the right track, but if we think we can even compete in the playoffs (let alone actually competing for a title) with a team remotely close to the one we have now, we are just fooling ourselves! We have to not only think BIG, we have to think HUGE!!

Francis + for Artest+Tinsley
Give Nash the money (if avalible)
Cato for Kurt Thomas

Nash/Tinsley
Mobley/JJ
Artest/Pike
Thomas/MoT/Badiane
Yao/???

These are some if not all of the players I would like to see the Rockets make a run for. Although hypothetical.

 

no.

 

These deals could be had, from the other teams perspective! It would take a combination of things for this to happen though.

Hypothetically speaking:
1. The Rockets would have to miss the playoffs again, and if so, hopefully they would seriously look at going a different way with the team by moving Steve.

2. If the Pacers fail to achieve their goal of tops in the east they may look at adding talent in the offseason. Francis would give them this talent and could play the two in Indiana. They've already benched Tinsley so he would be a throw-in. And they have room to move Artest because they have Harrington waiting in the wings. The Rockets would be losing Francis but they would get a young, versatile SF, that also happens to be one of the best shut down defenders in the league plus a solid back-up pg.

3. To get Nash, he (Nash) has to opt out of his contract at season's end, and the Rockets have to give him the money. Plain and simple. He would bring excitement to the club and to the city of Houston, and on top of that he would be coming to a team that would be trying to get to the promised land. And with Yao, a team that would actually be able to compete with Shaq and the Lakers.

4. By sending Cato to NY for Kurt Thomas, the Knicks would get a legit center to split quality minutes with the aging Mutombo. They also have room to move Thomas due to the return of McDyess. NY would get a legit front line without really losing anything but depth (as McDyess would start at PF). The Rockets on the otherhand, would get a PF that can bruise as well as one with some range.

The team of:

Nash/Tinsley/Moochie?
Mobley/JJ/Pike
Artest/Pike/AG/Boki
Thomas/MoT/Badiane
Yao/???/Badiane

....would be young, athletic, and strong enough, IMO, to seriously compete in the West. Players like AG, Boki and Moochie maybe throw-ins in the afformentioned deals. But knowing the Rockets organization...................

cheers to dreaming!

 

But does he handle the ball more or less? I would guess less......yet turns it over more frequently....

 

I friggin hope so.

what the hell is up with all of these "fair-weather" fans?!?!

 

what are you taling about??

 

Excellent thread Manny. The answer to the first question of whether or not we can win a title with Francis as PG is a resounding no in my estimation. I think the reasons for that have been covered pretty well in this thread and many others. That brings about the second question you posed. Can the Rockets win a title with Francis playing a more scoring 2 guard role?

Last season, I felt they could, but no longer think that. If the plan is to deal away Mobley, Taylor, Cato, etc and get more role players around Steve-Yao, then Steve had better become an elite scorer for that to work. He had better be able to put up around 25-26 PPG on a decent FG%. Looking at how things have gone this season (Steve has actually regressed on the offensive side of the ball) I no longer think this is possible. If the Rockets go all out to build around Yao and Steve and all he does is put up 21-22 PPG, this team will be in a world of hurt.

That being said, I would not at all be opposed to dealing Steve and getting players that fit well into this concept around Yao. If Seattle was willing to part with Rashard Lewis and Brent Barry, I would definitely go for it. Imagine how improved the offense would be by having a skilled 6-10 forward in Lewis that can score from so many areas of the floor making the entry passes to Yao. Also, imagine plugging a 6-6 guard with incredible playmaking and savvy along with a lights out shot into the backcourt. Yao would be the first option and would have the appropriate talent around him with Lewis providing a much needed 20 PPG scorer at the SF spot and Mobley still being a very solid 3rd option. Brent Barry would do a great job getting this team running and making plays.

 

Well, quit assuming!! All pg's handle the ball frequently!

 

I like my line-up a little better, as it is more versatile and better defensively, but if Nash was resigned, Barry would be a solid second choice.

Nash (or Barry)/Tinsley/Moochie?
Mobley/JJ/Pike
Artest/Pike/AG/Boki
Thomas/MoT/Badiane
Yao/???/Badiane


The positive about having Barry instead of Nash would be that it allows more money to be spent on depth.