Can We Win a Title With Francis as the Point Guard??

Well, at the top of page two in THIS THREAD, Jeff states that he knows "for a fact" that the Rockets don't think Francis is the problem and that he won't get traded. Well, the only way he can be THAT certain is if he talks with either the coaching staff or management on at least a semi-regular basis

Of course, Jeff and Clutch are Gods here and their word is taken as gospel by most people, but hey, who hasn't questioned God every now and then.

 

APG
1. Jason Kidd (New Jersey Nets) 17 155 9.1
2. Baron Davis (New Orleans Hornets) 19 163 8.6
3. Stephon Marbury (Phoenix Suns) 17 143 8.4
4. Steve Nash (Dallas Mavericks) 17 123 7.2
4. Sam Cassell (Minnesota Timberwolves) 18 129 7.2
6. Jason Williams (Memphis Grizzlies) 15 106 7.1
7. Eric Snow (Philadelphia 76ers) 19 127 6.7
8. Allen Iverson (Philadelphia 76ers) 18 117 6.5
9. Gary Payton (Los Angeles Lakers) 18 116 6.4
9. LeBron James (Cleveland Cavaliers) 19 122 6.4
9. Mike Bibby (Sacramento Kings) 16 102 6.4
12. Damon Stoudamire (Portland Trail Blazers) 16 96 6.0
13. T.J. Ford (Milwaukee Bucks) 17 101 5.9
14. Charlie Ward (New York Knicks) 19 108 5.7
14. Paul Pierce (Boston Celtics) 18 102 5.7
16. Chauncey Billups (Detroit Pistons) 20 112 5.6
17. Vlade Divac (Sacramento Kings) 16 86 5.4
17. Brad Miller (Sacramento Kings) 16 86 5.4
19. Jamal Crawford (Chicago Bulls) 15 80 5.3
19. Tracy McGrady (Orlando Magic) 17 90 5.3
19. Andre Miller (Denver Nuggets) 18 95 5.3
22. Brent Barry (Seattle SuperSonics) 15 77 5.1
22. Jason Terry (Atlanta Hawks) 18 91 5.1
24. Ricky Davis (Cleveland Cavaliers) 18 89 4.9
24. Vince Carter (Toronto Raptors) 18 88 4.9
26. Jeff McInnis (Portland Trail Blazers) 16 77 4.8
27. Steve Francis (Houston Rockets) 17 79 4.6
27. Emanuel Ginobili (San Antonio Spurs) 19 88 4.6
27. Mike James (Boston Celtics) 18 83 4.6
27. Kevin Garnett (Minnesota Timberwolves) 18 82 4.6


Yeah, this is just ...... not good. Ricky Davis for crying out loud! This stat has Championship written all over it

 

It depends on who he has around him.

He's not going to carry a team to the championship.

However if Hakeem in his prime had Steve as a point guard the Rockets would have won at least four championships.

You have to look at the offense we are running. In the All Star Game last year, the coaches just let Steve and Kobe do their thing and they were awesome. Look at Steve's line when given a system where he can create and teamates that can finish:

20 points on 9 of 12 shooting
9 assists
3 turnovers

And that's against the best in the world.

Steve can be awesome if we ever find the right way to use him.

 

I've tried to make this point many times.

With the way everyone can dribble and create their own shot, you don't need one guy doing all of the playmaking.

The old school point guard would get a lot of assists becuase the old school off guard and small forwards just ran off picks all day and shot jumpers.

Today, those same guards and forwards (even PF's) just isolate on the wing and drive.

No need to have a PG set everything up for you.

 

The new defense rules preclude traditional PG's except in transition (Kidd)

 

Steve isn't going anywhere, alas.

If Cato ever gets dealt, we must make sure we get back a backup center (Tony Battie? Adonal Foyle?), as Man-Boobs won't be the answer.

Haven't we reached the point where we can deal Man-Boobs? Not that teams are clamoring for his prowess (amazing power in a B-cup!! It's MAN-BOOBS!!) but as part of a larger trade...? I mean, sure, he's not great, but he would get spot minutes in blowouts. Hasn't played a second for us.

I sure am missing Kenny Thomas right about now. I miss that toughness.

 

I think the rockets can win the title with SF at pg.

But at this point in time I don't think the rockets can win the title with SF as the best player on the team. Make the playoffs? Yeah. Become contenders? Nope.

 

francis' payroll is going to increasingly burden the rockets from acquiring other key veteran players

that, in my opinion, is why we should commit to trading him before his play truly does not justify his pay.

 

That's all-star SHOW, not a real game. It's differrent when you face players who really try to guard you.


--daoshi

 

Short answer...no....but....read on.

This is the key here. Let Francis be the "PG" in title only and defensively but "offensively" let someone like a Brent Barry run the show. If the team is going to be built around Francis AND Yao then we need players that compliment BOTH of their games. Yao needs a partner at PF that can bang and grab rebounds but at the same time hit jump shots. Francis needs a partner at the guard spot that can hit the 3pt shot and pass the basketball, drive and dish and be able to run the fast break properly so we can get high percentage shots. Then we add in a SF that can hit the 3pt shot for spacing purposes and we are all set.

Heck, if we can get Brent Barry, Rashard Lewis and Elton Brand I think we would be set! LOL .

I also agree that we need a solid backup PG, one that can pass the basketball. Perhaps someone that can play with Francis in stretches and allow Francis to freelance. A veteran at this position would be very nice.

Clearly this roster needs some tuneups. And the things we need to do to this team to make it a serious contender for a championship might take a few years. There are a couple of pieces still missing and it might take time to get those pieces via trade, free agency and the draft.


But ultimately I think it starts with recognizing that we need a different guard combo in the backcourt. I think we will find the offense will flow better and make everyone a better player regardless of their current talent level.

I know for Francis to be effective he needs the ball in his hands (versus running off screens etc) and I am not suggesting taking it out of his hands. I am merely suggesting we START with it in someone elses hands and then let them dictate when Francis and others get the ball. Francis will still get his touches, they will just be monitored and his touches will be maximized. Imagine how many LESS turnovers this scenario would produce!

 

Good point, BTW.....everyone should take a look and what is going on with New Orleans and Baron Davis. Francis should be doing the same thing as Davis at this point. I believe Davis is in the top five in scoring AND assists!

Last year if someone asked me which player is better I would have said it is close but Francis. Now it is not even close, Davis hands down. Davis is a better shooter and a better set up man. The ONLY thing Francis might have on Davis is athleticism and that is not enough!

 

My point, exactly...

 

People say Steve can't pass and isn't smart.

Whether the defensive intensity isn't the greatest doesn't take away from the fact that he DID create shots for teamates who DID convert the opportunities and that he DID play smart and hit a high percentage.

 

Great! Let's get Yao out of the post and build the offense around Steve penetrating and dishing ala NO.

 

You've never seen Yao set a high pick for Steve?

 

A F-only fan..

 

I thought at one time that with sheer determination, Steve would discipline and mature his overall game to play PG.

But so far this season, I think the thing that frustrates us and Steve is that his basketball strengths are what I would call street ball. He is a bad PG and a so-so 2 guard now. But he would be a terror on the playground or at Fonde because he is insanely talented and athletic for 6'-3".

But I am having my doubts about him at the PG.

Not that I don't think in another 2-3 years JVG could help him mature, but I don't see the foundation in his game to change.

He plays uncomfortable when he trys to harness himself and make the change in play.

McGrady, Shaq, Kidd, Duncan all have a position and a style of play that lends to consistancy for their game.

Steve doesn't have a position.

He cannot consistantly overmatch those who play him.

A NBA superstar is going to overmatch any one on one defensive coverage.

Steve can't do this.

Steve gets some double teams but he has to earn them game by game. Like most 2nd level stars.

I see Steve's fate becoming like a Spreewell or Brand

Great players but nothing elite.

These are my pessimistic feelings of frustration for this season so far

 

Whaa?

Steve is one of the top 4 or 5 one on one guys in the league as far as beating a man off the dribble by facing up. Hell, you could just watch sportscenter and know that.

Bryant, Iverson, healthy McGrady and Marbury are arguably better, but he's right up there.

The ostensible problem is that when he gets past his man there are three others standing in the lane now because of the zone and he can't/won't pass out, or when the lane is to clogged and he pulls up and takes a lousy shot.

Of the many criticisms that he deserves; Saying that Francis "can't beat his man one-on-one" is like saying that Yao Ming lacks size; if anything, his problems stem from being too accustomed to beating his man one-on-one.

 

You can blame part of that on JVG's offense and the spacing they are acheiving.

He sure didn't show it on that last regulation play he got called for traveling on.

 

a. why are you going to compare steve to baron at this point? baron is playing absolutely insane right now. he's scoring a ton, he steals a ton, he hits tons of 3's, and NO is playing great. baron is probably the mvp at this point. steve not being as good as baron has more to do with baron simply going crazy at this point than steve sucking.

b. how in the world could steve be top 5 in assists in our offense? seriously. half of the time it goes into the post (mostly yao, some mo t) which will get you no assists. we don't run lots of shooters off picks and just have the pg throw passes to them a la cleveland with andre miller. and with jvg steve rarely gets to iso and drive and draw the defense to pass to the open man. he mostly takes jump shots and shots off picks that aren't designed pnr's. so where could he possibly get the 7 or 8+ assists to be top 5? he would have to go up on his career average in an offense that this year is basically designed to lower his assists.

and top 5 in scoring? could you imagine how many threads would be started every day if steve actually took enough shots to be top 5 in scoring?