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Can we stop this trade speculation stuff?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tofu--, Aug 20, 2010.

  1. tofu--

    tofu-- Member

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    I don't mean to be a debbie downer, but this entire offseason the whole "let's try and get a star!" stuff has been wearing on me. I was never a fan of Bosh and frankly the sheer amount of love he got before he showed his true colors made me really question what people on the board were thinking. The developing Carmelo thing is similar in that I think he is a premier player with an amazing offensive skillset... and yet I still wouldn't want him on the Rockets.

    Am I the only person that wants to roll out with what we have and see how far we take it?

    There are certainly situations where a star player is warranted. Right now if we're talking late game, we only really have Brooks and Yao to take those shots, if you're assuming a one-on-one situation. But what the hell is the big deal? Aren't people in the media looking at Miami and asking with smirks "Heh, well which one of you three is going to be taking the last shot?" Brooks has shown time and time again to have ice in his veins and Yao is Yao, having come through in the clutch for us numerous times. Why do we seem to want to try and stack a team that's already, in my eyes, really an outstanding stacked team if we have to give up some of these pieces? I think we're one of the deepest in the league right now, and while I would love more upgrades, I don't like seeing us give up core players. Why? Welll...

    I think our team is one that has a fairly unique offensive system that doesn't call for ball-domination, iso-one-on-ones, and whatever. And most importantly, we have a group of players that are all really smart and buy into this system. We saw how McGrady screwed us up when he was in the lineup with Artest and Yao, and though whoever we may get if we do happen to make a trade will obviously be better than worn-down McGrady, it was a series of games that made me realize that we can't have traditionalists or ego-driven players on the team. We need talented, smart people that fit the system. Yet people keep acting like Martin is not a borderline All-Star, not someone who knows Adelman and his system cold, and not among the greatest complements to Yao in the league.

    What's this immediate fixation on "WE MUST GET A STAR PLAYER OR WE'RE NEVER EVER GONNA WIN LOLZ." Is winning always just fitting into preconceived notions of how others have succeeded? I didn't believe for a second going into the Pistons-Lakers series years back that the Pistons were gonna pull it out. But they proved me wrong, and also showed the ability to play matchups and to not have ego get in the way of winning is an important one and I think it is one of the reasons Adelman's old Sacramento and even Portland teams were able to flourish. It's simply a group of great ballers, compromised of really solid players at each position and a star or two (Yao vs. Webber respectively) that can still be there to rely on when you need it.

    "Butbut, Yao is always injured!" So he is. And frankly, if he can't deliver this season, we should be thinking about trading him anyway, though it seems he'll freely retire on his own if that's the case. Yet if we keep wanting one or the other-- i.e. "I want to keep building around Yao" when Yao is always injured, but then refusing to go with our team--which is made up of an amazing talented core that complements each other's skillsets wonderfully-- because you want yet ANOTHER star player to perhaps play with Yao doesn't make sense to me. We can't put all our eggs in one basket, and if we do, we have to do it in a way that makes sense. Morey is so smart that I trust him for these bigger decisions regardless, but it's the people on the board that just make these speculations that make my head hurt.

    So let's roll out with what we have. And I truly believe we'll all be pleasantly surprised when we hold the championship trophy over our heads.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. viertelasiat

    viertelasiat Member

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    I definitely agree with the part I bolded and I think it is a mistake to trade Martin+anything else of value for a "superstar". Martin is very efficient and he isn't on a ridiculous contract for the numbers he puts up. Call me crazy but I'm happy with having AB and Martin rather than Melo. This is not to say I wouldn't do a straight up trade Martin for Melo but rather I don't think we should contemplate destroying our well built roster for a chance at having another star.

    With that said, however, I think that we can obtain solid players or maybe even get a steal of a deal where we don't have to give up significant assets. But we may need to give up something to get something and this is a star's league and drawing in another star will attract other quality players (however I do not know to what extent and we have to always think about the salary cap). I think this is where a good GM will draw the lines in trades.
     
  3. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    We need to focus on the games! Like the one they played last night!
     
  4. tofu--

    tofu-- Member

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    This is really the point of my argument, as was your mentioning of the value of Carmelo. You delivered it far more straightforwardly than I did.
     
  5. Raven

    Raven Member

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    We have one of the shrewdest general managers in the league, and you want us to stop talking about potential deals?

    Not going to happen.
     
  6. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN
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    Well, unfortunately you only had one example of a team that pulled it off without a true superstar. Just one in the entire history of the NBA. I don't like those odds. And I understand not wanting Carmelo on the Rockets. I'm not a huge Carmelo fan myself, but I'd be all for obtaining him. If not Carmelo, who? And when? When Yao is 32? 33?

    And I don't think the Rockets can contend with what they have. I think if Yao remains healthy we'll be a very good team. If Yao isn't healthy, we may barely squeak into the playoffs. But either way, we won't be a contender without a true go-to-guy in the clutch. And I don't know what team you're watching, but I don't think of Brooks as having ice water in his veins. Nor do I think of Yao being a go-to-guy in the clutch because it's SO EASY to keep the ball from even getting to him.
     
  7. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    I love this thread, and feel the same way.

    There is so much to figure out before we make any more trades.

    1. How will Kevin Martin play this year with a full training camp?

    2. Will Aaron Brooks continue to get better?

    3. How will both of them play with Yao Ming?

    4. Will Yao being in the paint help the perimeter defense of Martin, Shane and Brooks?

    5. How healthy is Yao?

    6. What will Brad Miller bring?

    7. How will Courtney Lee fit in?

    8. How good is this team as is?

    Then you have the questions about acquiring a Max player as the CBA is expiring.

    1. If signing Melo to an extension, does it tie up too much cap room going into a declining Salary cap?

    Not to mention seeing how anyone we get fits in with what is left over.

    This Rockets team is full of hard working, quality players, who play together as a team, I personally, would like to see how well they do BEFORE we make any big moves.

    As Treebeard says "Let's not be Hasty"

    DD
     
    #7 DaDakota, Aug 20, 2010
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2010
  8. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    This team is not a contender as is.
     
  9. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    I disagree, if Yao is healthy, I believe it is a conender.

    None of us really know, and we are all just using our own judgement here.

    DD
     
  10. Williamson

    Williamson JOSH CHRISTOPHER ONLY FAN
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    I disagree with you disagreeing. I also disagree with none of us really knowing. MOREY KNOWS! :grin:
     
  11. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!

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    Morey doesn't know either, he just has a much more educated opinion.

    ;)

    DD
     
  12. joesr

    joesr Member

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    stupid DVR. Is batkins gonna upload that one??
     
  13. JusBleezy

    JusBleezy Contributing Member

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    Completely disagree with the bolded part above. This argument is really simple and has been stated and proven throughout the NBA's history; Superstars win championships. Great/Allstars players win games in the regular but 95 times out of 100, fall to superstars with great talent around them in the playoffs and nearly never win championships without a said superstar.

    Should we slow down with all of the trade chatter when it seems nothing is imminent? Sure. Won't argue that fact. But I'll argue the fact that if you are getting the best player in the trade, you do that trade 9 times out of 10 depending on how much talent you are giving up to complete the trade. From what I've seen, we wouldn't be giving up Martin AND Brooks in a trade for Carmelo. I've seen Martin OR Brooks + Hill, Jeffries, Picks etc. You do that trade, period.
     
  14. Rocket4Life11

    Rocket4Life11 Contributing Member

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    Excellent post, agree with all of it.

    Nah, you're not the only one. There are many here right with you, DD and OMR to name a few.
     
  15. emjohn

    emjohn Contributing Member

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    He's not.
     
  16. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Let's see, we have Morey, one of the most brilliant GM's in the NBA, who has accumulated tons of assets, we have a good young nucleus, and we have an owner who is willing to spend.

    We have a NEED for that one superstar alpha dog.

    It's the offseason.

    And you are wondering why we are speculating on trades?
     
  17. RocketRick

    RocketRick Member

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    This is what we are lacking and need. There is slim picking right now so Melo is the best out there that seems to be available.
     
  18. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    Stop being so logical.
     
  19. yuisakata

    yuisakata Member

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    Agreed. Our best chance is still to get another young, home-grown superstar to rise up from within the Rockets ranks.
     
  20. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    We have to have another superstar (not a slightly better than average player with potential) to pick up the slack once Yao goes down for the season.

    If K-Mart and AB are your two best players on the court, you can forget about any championship aspirations. I love them as much as anyone here, but we have to be realistic. You can't win a championship without a superstar.
     

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