TheFreak, Here's one for you: Isiah Thomas (super HOFer) Kelly Tripucka (leading scorer) Bill Laimbeer (NBA top 90 player) Vinnie Johnson couldn't achieve jack **** for 5 yrs until they got Dantley (HOFer) for Tripucka Joe Dumars (HOFer) Dennis Rodman (should be HOFer)
Clutch, As for the first question: I would know because I've been posting on this board on and off for a long time. It has changed dramatically over the last two to three years (especially since the Rockets have had their struggles). If you don't agree, fine. But, that's my opinion, and I'm sure that quite a few others agree with me on that. It's not an insult to you. And, I wasn't commenting on the site in general. I'm comment on having to wade thru a zillion posts that are just insults hurled back and forth about why this or that player sucks or why the Rockets are junk, or why we need to trade every player on the team, etc.... I'm looking for a little positivity around here, and a little patience. As far as my style of posting... I've never once personally insulted anyone on this board. Sure, sometimes I use strong language, but it's to make a point, and it's it's never directed as an insult to any particular person. If people take it personally, then they need to look at themselves and figure out why, because I didn't mention their name or directly call them out. As for whether I think I solved anything with my post... No, I have no illusions about solving anything. I'm just trying to get some debate going and hopefully get people thinking on a more positive track regarding the Rockets. Hey, that's what this board is all about, right?
HeyPartner: Yes, I agree these were relatively young teams, but let me point out a few things: 1. In 1990, the Spurs had a "young" David Robinson, but they also had him surrounded by some key veterans. On top of that, back then the West was pretty weak. Portland was the best team, and after that it was pretty thin. The Lakers were on their way out, and the balance of power was in a major shift. 2. Yes, you are right, the Magic broke the mold for sure. The only bonafide veteran they had in their starting lineup was Horace Grant. They definitely overachieved, as our sweep of them proved. Actually, I would count them as a team that got to the Finals in a VERY weak conference that year but really didn't belong there. 3. The Rockets were not as young as you think in '86. They had a slew of veteran players, but yes, their two "superstars" Sampson and Olajuwon were young for sure. 4. The 1980 Celtics were the same situation as the '86 Rockets. They had just drafted Bird in '79, but they had a core nucleus of veterans like Nate Archibald, Rick Robey, Gerald Harrison, and M.L. Carr. I think if Steve Francis and Yao Ming had the a core of veteran players around them today, we'd be looking at a much different situation, and maybe we'd even reach the playoffs and Finals this year because they would have on-the-floor guidance at all times.
Thanks hp...I believe that goes against what haven is alleging, that the Rockets should be ahead of where they are. I'm just looking for some historical or current references to back that up, with examples of teams that are or have done better than the Rockets with similar players and experience. Right now the Rockets are the youngest of the Top 9 in the West, and are led by a younger version of Stephon Marbury and a rookie center. Cuttino Mobley is their 'veteran'. I want to know where that team SHOULD be right now, if not where they are, and I'd like to see examples that back that up.
yeah, TheFreak, I agree. And Shaq was only 41-41 in his first year. Axeman is right. The Celtics and Spurs had experience we didn't. And although the playoff run by the '86 Rockets was without key vets, they played with them in the regular season. btw: Francis is only 1 *day* younger than Marbury.
Axeman, with all due respect, the '86 Rockets were mostly "kids". Sampson-3rd year Hakeem-2nd year McCray-3rd year Wiggins-3rd year Peterson-2nd year Leavell- a vet who couldn't find minutes Robert Reid- a vet who made a huge contribution John Lucas- played 65 games and was kicked out of the League for coke Lewis Lloyd- Lew was big for the Rocks that year Everyone else was a rookie (Harris) or couldn't buy minutes on the court. I would call that a VERY young team. Reid and Lloyd were your vets on that squad. That's it.
QUESTION for Rox fans: It seems that the consensus for us not achieving success (Western Conference Final) is blamed to the teams youth. Many of you accurately cited that we won with the young Dream and Sampson partly due to the experienced supporting cast. With that said, why don't we build via trade for a experienced supporting cast? What boggles my mind is how many astute fans of the game in this board over-value potential. We only need 2 superstars on a team and a third semi star. It is clear (at least to me) that Yao and Stevie is the foundation of this team. Why dont we go out and "fill in" the missing pieces? Why are we so content on "merely" making the playoffs this year when we are the ONLY team to have 2 all stars in the league? Someone mentioned that Jordan didn't win until mid to the late portion of his career. That does not mean that they would not have won sooner via trades. The Bulls simply didnt have enough talent. There were not SIMPLE upgrade options that can improve the team that drastically. Sorry if this is sort of off topic but many of your posts relate to this...
Deckard, Lucas did run that team for that whole year, though. btw: it still was Dream's 2nd yr, and that team was definitely more talented than us. Maybe next year we'll compete like them, but Yao is just too exhausted sometimes to make us consistent at the level of being a contender.
I'm not talking about age...he's played 3 more seasons than Francis. I don't know why people are talking about the '86 Rockets. Akeem was better at that age than Francis will probably EVER be. So why try to compare?
Through 65 games, heypartner. Yes, there is no doubt that Lucas had a big impact that year, but he wasn't around for the finish or the playoffs. I wish he had been. My point was just that it WAS a young team. They were considered young over-achievers until the Lakers series... then they were suddenly the future of the NBA. Sadly, we know what happened next. Freak, if we never compared anything to anything, what would we do here?
Well, if I mention Orlando '94, I'm damn sure going to mention Akeem in '86. btw: I think everyone knows that team is vastly more talented that the '03 Rockets, so in that sense, it is a good comparison to show what it takes to be a young contender.
