Nor the Bruise Brothers of Rick Mahorn and Jeff Ruland of the Bullets. These two guys slammed Jordan to the floor a few times in Jordan's first ever NBA game in the Chicago Stadium.
He wasn't comparing 6/24 to 5/19. He was comparing 6/24 to 15/35. If you're going to use MJ's 15/35 shooting in a close-out game as evidence that he didn't always play well in the Finals, you should mention that Kobe shot worse than that in three of the seven games in this year's finals, one game in last year's finals, four games in the 2008 finals, four games in the 2004 finals, one game in the 2002 finals, two games in the 2001 finals, and three games in the 2000 finals.
I conceed that MJ is better. This, to me, is a comparison of Kobe against everyone else...where he is now and where he will finish among the top 10 of all time. Many refuse to even place him with names like Bird, Magic and Kareem, which to me shows clear bias instead of objective opinion. He is a better player than Shaq, as evidenced by multiple rings without him. I think he will end his career as the all-time leading scorer in league history. If he gets one more title, I think he passes Magic, Kareem and West as the greatest Laker, which is kind of like becoming the best Yankee. I would say Kobe is a unique trailblazer in one aspect...he, along with KG, were the first to tackle the league straight from high school. I know Moses and Kemp and a few others did it, but Kobe was the first to really explode, and he started a trend that dominated the league for a decade and caused rules to be changed.
Yes. Moses did it first. And Kobe didn't cause the rules to be changed...it was all the straight-from-HS busts that deserve that honor.
the lakers won with a team effort. defense and rebounding were the reasons why they won this championship, and kobe def. played a huge part. but his teammates won him game 3 and 7 of the finals. imagine that. he played a back-up role in both games.
Jordn is the GOAT Kobe modeled his game after Jordan Jordans never lost an NBA Finals series (Kobe twice) Jordan didnt have Shaq-a top 5 C in NBA history, he had an overrated Pippen that was great but a Robin nonetheless, Mike never had a great C he played with Luc Longley and Bill Cartwright lmao and alota decent role players Kobes played with Glen Rice, Brian Shaw, Robert Horry, Jr Rider, Lamar Odom, Ron Artest, Pau Gasol.. Bryants played on more talented teams than Jordan all the pressure was on Jordan, it wasnt always on Kobe all he had to do was just dump it in to the black hole juggernaught Shaq when things got hectic or Pau or Bynum recently Jordan will always be greater than Kobe, point, set, match
Tracy Mcgrady, allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade, Lebron James and many, many more elevate their game in the playoffs.
"many, many more" is not true. tracy mcgrady and iverson do elevate their production in the playoffs, but they were not as efficient. however, their impact is much greater so you're right. lebron james is the only player of this generation who elevates his game to another level like jordan and dream and more importantly, also elevate their efficiency.
Yes :grin: There are a few ways to determine who was better. IN both stats and award Jordan is much better than Bryant. So when you look at it objectively there are no measurements in which Bryant is better. On what do the people who think Bryant is better than Jordan base their opinion? I'm glad you agree that Jordan is better. The fact that Bryant isn't done doesn't change the fact that at this moment there is no argument for thinking Bryant is better than Jordan. If Bryant by some miracle wins 4 more championships, and averages 40 points at a FG% of 0.800 and averages a triple double each year. Than Yes you can have that argument. But we do not know if it is going to happen, so there is no point in debating it until it happens. Hence my Chase analogy. Not sure how Jordan had less mileage when he came to the NBA, Sure he had less mileage ate the same age. But what does that prove? My two, so we can agree on that :grin:. The fact is that I Hated Jordan when he played, I wanted him to lose every time, but you cannot deny that he was great, and probably the best SG ever to play the game. I also think Bryant is great, but just not in the range of Jordan. I think my point is clear: When you look at it objectively there are no measurements (stats, awards etc) in which Bryant is better. So there is no reason to even have this discussion.
In my book, Kobe is still below Bird, Magic, Kareem and a few others, but he's definitely in my top 12. I don't think you can say he is better than Shaq because he has multiple rings without Shaq. Would he have multiple rings without Shaq if he had spent the prime of his career playing with Shaq? O'Neal came to LA just as he was hitting his prime and started winning championships. He didn't have the same success without Kobe because he was past his prime by the time he left. If it had been the other way around, and Shaq was still in his prime when he left, and Kobe was past his, who would have more rings without the other? I say Kobe benefited from the timing, winning championships with Shaq when he wasn't good enough to get them on his own, and then leading a team when he was ready. I'm glad you mention KG, because he was really the one to start the trend, not Kobe. KG came into the league a year earlier and became an all-star before Kobe did.
No need to agrue .... Kobe will never be better or have an impact like Jordan but once Kobe retire I think you can put him in the phase "Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kobe" talking about the greatest of the last 30 years.
agree that Kobe is close to, but not quite at the level of Magic, Bird, Kareem, MJ, Russell, Chamberlain Dream. that is not the case. Shaq was in his prime when he joined the Lakers, the same year that the Lakers had traded for Kobe. in their first 3 years together, Shaq and Kobe could never reach the WC Finals. they didn't win the ring until Phil came on board, Shaq and Kobe's 4th year together. actually no, some higher school kid named Moses Malone started the trend, some 23 years before KG.
Lmao at those who try to poke holes in Kobe's ship because his team helped him get it as if Jordan didnt have a STACKED team. No one has done it by themselves and no one will.
Kobe is better than Lebron, and right now no one in the league can say they are better. The dude has 5 rings and 2 final mvps, yes he had help. His 1st title was more Glen Rice than Kobe. Shaq has huge part in all 3 of Kobes 1st 3 rings, and lets not forget Robet Horrys big shots in that time frame too. The last 2 you have to give credit to Kobe for being the leader. He is not Jordan...MJ had Pippen and the refs with him for all 6 titles. F Jordan! I wish the damn Bulls could have played the Rockets in the finals during our back to back run, so we could shut up the critics. Hakeem has the best player in the playoffs those years! The Rockets would have beat the poop out of that team. We beat the Magic in 4 games for the title, after the Magic beat the Bulls w/Jordan, in the 2nd round in 6 games. We would have beat the Bulls in 3 games...we would not have needed to even play the 4th game. And for Ron-Ron Im glad you won and all....but i sure as hell dont miss you jacking up bad 3 pointers over and over again. And for the record i hate Trevor Ariza. At least Matt Maloney's scrub ass could hit open 3 pointers. And for the recored I know Matt personally...and I hated him when he played here as well. Yo Matt! Hope the music world is treating you ok.
with Jordan on the team, and no 2-year layoff to play baseball, Rox (even with Dream) could not beat the Bulls in a series.
Well, that's what the NBA is certainly trying to do. They need an icon to save the league, which is why they are doing everything they can to put Kobe (and now Lebron) into the spotlight with the legends. But objectively speaking, Kobe doesn't belong there at all. His numbers aren't great. He has one MVP-- you can say that's a media award but which ones was he robbed of? He was more of a sidekick than Pippen for the first three titles (because Shaq was more dominant than Jordan), and he shouldn't have been Finals MVP for this last one (Gasol better in every advanced statistical measure, as well as the "eyeball test" down the stretch when he clearly had much better game 6s and 7s than Kobe). Kobe is a low percentage, high volume shooter who is more known for "81" than anything else. Where are his historic playoff moments? The four guys above have dozens of them.
Moses Malone did it before KG, but he didn't start the trend. When it takes 23 years before someone does it again, you didn't start the trend. As soon as KG made the jump, a lot of guys started doing it every year.
UR wrong, Bill Willougby, another high schooler, was picked in the 1st round the year after Malone. then Darryl Dawkins, a couple years later
