Can we finally put to rest that the Gasol/Brown trade was 1 sided

The Rockets drafted Hakeem to play alongside Sampson. If you can't tell the difference between the two situations, or somehow think the Grizz planned to play either Thabeet or Gasol as their PF then we will never agree on anything basketball related.

 

You are probably too young to remember that Hakeem had a big rift with management about what you don't know what you are talking about.

Go ask your fellow rockets fans about it before you embarrass yourself even more. LOL, this guy just talks without the facts even being straight in his own mind, loloololo

 

no i don't believe he was

 

people forget that Javaris Crittenton was just 1 year removed from being a top 20 pick as a 20 year old with promise.

If anyone wants to say that they were lucky that Marc Gasol panned out...you could say they were equally unlucky that Crittenton was an enormous bust

 

Um, I'm old enough to remember all of Hakeem's career and he had no issue with being a part of the original twin towers. You should probably take your own advice in regards to embarrassing yourself.

 

It's futile to discuss this with them.

By that logical the guy Bill Gates bought qdos from made out like a bandit with all the money he made for lines of useless code.

The billions he made after the fact doesn't count. LOLOLOLO

 

Top 20 picks, near 2nd round picks and even a top 10 prospect (if you want to say Gasol was even that) is not fair value for a star player. That's all guys are arguing. And typically a #10 pick isn't included one of the top prospects that year. Why do you think it costs so much to get into the top 5 of the draft?

 

Yeah, after he demanded to play center or they need to trade him. Don't remember that?

 

What does him demanding to play center have to do with the Rocket's plans to play them alongside each other, which they did do?

Here is some advice that may help you. If I make a point and you want to rebut it, rebut it with something that actually relates to my point. In other words, if my argument is that teams don't use high picks on guys they plan to play at the same position (in this case, the center position), then telling me that a player doesn't want to play alongside someone really isn't rebutting my point. In case you can't catch on, alongside means they are playing together and the team isn't planning on them both playing the same position.

 

Here's the point: and I am going to make it real simple for you to understand.

The rockets drafted the best player on the board, regardless of the position and then they tried to insert that player, Hakeem, in as a pf. There plan backfired because Hakeem didn't want to have anything to do with being a pf. If it had not been for Sampson relenting, then blowing out his knee, it would have been a colossal failure.


Your point was that the rockets planned for Sampson and Hakeem to play along side of one another, and yet, according to you, they dismissed the fact that both were centers, or you just didn't reach that conclusion because you were too busy making a weak point.

Why is it weak? Because they had to appease hakeem by playing him at center and putting Sampson who wasn't close to being a pf, to play out of position.

Now, in your infinite wisdom, to avoid all of this rift (which you clearly don't know about because it was a much bigger deal than what you think) isn't it possible that they took Hakeem, more than likely because he was the best player on the board and not because he was meant to play along with Sampson?

Do you understand this, or no?

 

It's like saying Bin Laden's death puts to rest that George W. Bush was not a genius.

 

And if the Grizz planned to do the same with Thabeet and Gasol, then your point would be relevant.

How did the plan backfire when they made it to the Finals in their 2nd season?? That alone makes it silly to say it was a collosal failure, especially when you are on here bragging about your team getting out of the first round.

My point is if you are satisfied with who you have at a certain position then you don't use a high draft pick on a player to play that same position. That is quite different from using a high draft pick on a player to play ANOTHER position.

Do you mean because they had the foresight to form the original twin towers, which got them a trip to the Finals before Sampson got hurt? Again, unless you are arguing that the Grizz planned to play Thabeet/Gasol alongside each other then that example is not relevant.

Forgive me if I go with the established logic that they knew the two could play alongside each other, which they proved that they could. Do you understand that, and how it has no bearing on your team picking a guy that they didn't plan to play alongside Gasol?

Do you understand that Thabeet wasn't drafted to play alongside Gasol, so bringing up a situation where Hakeem was drafted to play alongside Sampson, whether he liked it or not, is....not.....helping.....your.....argument? The Rockets made that pick with the plans to play them alongside each other. Now relate that....somehow....to what the Grizz did with Thabeet/Gasol? Yeah....we will be waiting on that.

 

So they weren't satisfied with Sampson?

This gets better and better.

 

Um, I would love for you to highlight where I said they weren't satisfied with Sampson. You can't possibly be so slow to twist me stating they drafted Hakeem to play alongside Sampson...i.e. to have them on the court playing different positions (C and PF)....as me inferring that they weren't happy with Sampson. I believe the Rockets were quite happy with their twin towers.

But again, I would love for you to highlight where I said they weren't satisfied with Sampson. You are right, this is getting better and better.

And you still haven't answered my question. Do you think the Grizz drafted Thabeet to play alongside Gasol, with one being the C and the other being the PF? If not, then how is the Hakeem/Sampson example relevant since Hakeem was drafted specifically to play alongside Sampson?

 

Haha, okay buddy.

Here you admit that the Rockets drafted Hakeem to play alongside Sampson.

You confirmed his point by saying that the Rockets planned for them to play together. How Sampson or Hakeem feels about it is irrelevant, because we're discussing drafting trends and that's all management.

Isn't it possible that they took Hakeem because he was the best player on the board AND planned to play him alongside Sampson to form the twin towers?

I understand what you're trying to do, however my logic box is currently functional so I can't really accept it.

 

At least the ID "What" is a true Grizzle fan. He's happy with the trade. The owner of Grizzles is too. And yet some idiots here try to persuade them that they got robbed.

 

According to him, if they were satisfied with the center they had they wouldn't have drafted another, Hakeem. At least that's the logic that he uses to call the grizzlies for first making the lopsided trade for gasol then drafting thabeet.

But he then changes the argument to, they drafted Hakeem to play alongside of Sampson.

When I then point out that Sampson was a poor fit as a pf, which isn't the role that they envisioned for him playing in the first place, since they had put Hakeem in that spot, he makes one of two points. He points out that the rockets made it to the nba finals with that tandem, all the while missing the point that Sampson was playing a position that they had originally wanted Hakeem to play.

So apparently as long as a plan worked out for the rockets with the sampson-hakeem near debacle, it's all well and good, but what he cannot come to grips with is the grizzlies having the same fortunate with Gasol, who has become a rousing success. Because, it doesn't matter what happen after they drafted Thabeet, because it was blind luck, and it's thabeet's drafting that tell him this.

Let me reiterate that the rockets original plan was to have Hakeem be the pf, and that they foresaw that Hakeem would not accept the role and that a player, sampson, who had always played center would be okay changing himself into a pf, a role that he was not accustom to playing, all because their original plan did not work out.

You are willing to say all of that they knew about, and allowed for? And probably they ended Sampson's career because of playing him out of position.

 

Timeline:
1A. You don't draft Hasheem if you think Marc Gasol will be your center.
1B. But the Rockets drafted Hakeem when they had Sampson.
2A. The Rockets planned on playing them together, one at C and one at PF
2B. But it didn't work.
3A. The Rockets reached the finals their second year.
3B. That doesn't matter.

From 2B to 3B is where the discussion loops, though really, none of it matters. The Rockets drafted Hakeem to play with Sampson, the Grizzlies drafted Hasheem to replace Gasol. The Hakeem-Sampson comparison is ONLY relevant if the Grizzlies planned to play Hasheem with Gasol, which they didn't.

This is what I understand to be Icehouse's point, and it makes sense, though it is not what I'm basing my argument around.

My argument is that you can't value Marc Gasol for what he is now as a part of the trade then because it was an unknown at the time.

We can all agree that Gasol is better than Hasheem, right? But if you were to offer me a choice of the #2 pick in the 2009 draft versus the 48th pick in the 2007 draft, you can't fault me for choosing the former, because it was a good choice at the time. Squandering the pick on someone like Thabeet doesn't change the dynamics of the deal at the time, because it was an unknown.

Likewise for Gasol panning out. At the time, the trade consisted of a proven All-Star big man--a rare commodity--being traded for a rookie averaging 4 ppg, an unknown overseas player taken with the 48th pick of the last draft, an expiring, and two future late first-rounders from a contending team. That is not a fair package. Throw in a Bynum or an Odom--proven players--and it becomes a lot more balanced.

 

The two-time defending champs and three-time defending western conference champs lost the trade?

 

No, he wasn't hurt. He just quit. Or was that the previous years playoffs?