Can the Rockets make the playoffs without Patrick Patterson?

Clippers took forever to change their destiny (a LOT longer than 5 years). It happened when Chris Paul got there.

Rockets are in year 3 after the Yao-McGrady regime. KevMart was to build around that - when Yao-McGrady fell apart Morey had to respond on the fly. He did it without tanking (because his boss told him he had too) and kept competitive teams even with no true lottery picks (never drafted higher than 12) or cap space, until now. Less than 3 years later, we are a young up and coming team with a superstar probably top 10 player. In short, we just got our version of Chris Paul. MIA and NY all rose because they got their superstars. We now have ours. It's ironic that you're complaining when we finally pulled off the necessary first step that those franchises pulled off. BTW, NY sucks. They're going to be in cap hell and are really old and falling apart before our eyes. They're not a true no. 2. I'd take MIA, IND, BOS over NY easily in the EAST, and in the West I'd take SAS, OKC, DEN, CLIP, MEM, LAL and even US before them.

How long has it taken these other teams who are constantly in the lottery to turn around? Charlotte? Philly? Minn? TOR? Cleve (although they are on an upswing)? NO? SAC? PHO? DET? WAS? MIL?

How many years were BOS and NY in the wilderness before finally becoming relevant again?

Finally, as another poster pointed out, we're playing .580 after the trade and .520 before the trade.

 

I think CH is hilarious and has a real subversive sense of humor and I'm generally a fina, but he has gone overboard on this point.

I like PP too - he's a professional and good role player. But he was going to be gone after or during next year anyway and the Rockets probably weren't going to pay him. TRob might have a lower floor, but he clearly has a higher ceiling, and also clearly has more value around the league. He could either develop or flash enough to get us the power forward we really want - PP would not do that.

The loss of PP hurt the team because it was gelling (although as someone pointed out, we're playing .580 after trade vs .520 before trade) and PP is a better player now, and fit the team better now, than TRob.

Also I agree our playoff chances may be diminished, but the difference between 97% chance and a 92% chance is worth the risk of getting a high upside player who was on a mismanaged team.

 

DD didn't get banned because of what he said , he got banned because of multiple accounts you know that. Clutch doesn't ban you for your opinions. Not sure why everyone is getting on CH either. What is a bit annoying is when he inserts the little "TROB ....blah blah " into irrelevant stuff but that is his shtick. I'm with him on this , and been saying it since day 1. This trade was not good for the rockets. Not like I really value Trobb but this trade has too many negatives in the areas of team chemistry, fragile state of the team, and the city being crowned the 9th place 14th pick dreaded FA destination of the NBA for the 5th straight year.
Someone mentioned it above, you shouldn't be evaluated simply on being able to turn a plyer for one of better value, you are trying to build a basketball team. It is much more than putting the best "X" and the best"Y" together.

 

We are arguably a #10 team in the league. We are no where near a clear top 10 team. There are 5 teams in the West who are better than us with no debate. There are 2/3 teams in the West that are at a similar level as us. There are at least 3/4 teams out East that a consensus of non-Rockets fans would say are clearly better than us. Yeah, I'd say we're barely clawing our way in to and out of the top 10.

And it's stupid to say that the Charlotte Bobcats have been to the playoffs more recently than us? We all know about the disparity between East and West. Should we pat ourselves on the back because we are 'theoretically' better than 2 or 3 teams who made it from the East every year? By that methodology, why would the Wolves change GMs, overhaul their roster, or do anything? I mean, they're probably better than the Bucks if they're healthy. Damn fans can't be patient and just see the 7 year master plan I guess.

You would swear that we were competing for championships the way Morey fanboys talk. "He wins every trade! OMGzorz he's the man!" Well then how about we see some June basketball...

So Patterson is one of the worst starters in the league, but your genius GM was the one who had him as a starter before the year started (think about it...). Patterson was so terrible apparently, yet we have actually downgraded in the meantime and now have an even worse starter at our 4. It'd be one thing if he upgraded the spot... Morey went down 2 spots on the depth chart from a guy you said was one of the worst starters in the league.

 

I'll admit that a lot of my viewpoints on Carl's behavior is that well, it's Carl. It's just really, really weird to see arguably the most irreverent poster on this board go well, completely bonkers in a way that reminds me more of Hillboy ( who now that I think of it, hasn't shown up at all this season now that the Rockets are looking up. Shocker.).

 

You think Trob is close to a finished product? You don't think he's raw? Do you know what those terms mean in the NBA realm?

A finalist for the Wooden award, and? This is the NBA, no one cares at all what you did in college.

Just answer this for me please... What part of his offensive game is polished?

 

Don't want to turn this into a bash Morey thread...

but we have seen his methods and how much trouble he has had attracting FA like Dwight and Gortat throught twitter and the media. Its plain and simple why guys like that don't want to consider coming here.

Lets say as some people have presented we are clearing cap space for a FA:

A) we made the trades so we would have cap space. ok.

B.) if this trade makes us that much worse and we miss the playoffs and get the 9th pick again it would kill any reputation we had build uptill now in being a potential FA destination.


What usually happens then is we use that cap space to overpay someone out of desperation like we did to Ariza and now to Lin.

Its great to get "Potential" in a trade, but basketball is a cohesive game where the sum of the parts is bigger than the whole. Sometimes it can be a catastrophe when trying to pick the best at each position like we are witnessing with the Lakers this year.

given all that, the Organization has made REALLY bad blunders these last couple of years. It is respectable they didn't tank...but had they acknowledged they had no talent and gotten some quality out of the draft like every other team does and gets back on board they might be in a better spot.

Yea the twolves haven't faired too well (injuries) but they have a very bright future.

Who remember what OKC (sonics at the time) did? They made smart moves in the draft, quite possibly the best sequential draft picks in assembling a championship I have seen in a while.

Thats the type of model to follow.

 

Except for the PHX game, this current team has had more success keeping opposing teams off the offensive glass (the most infuriating thing about PPatt/Morris).

Opposing teams grabbed double digit offensive rebounds 4 out of 12 games post-trade.
Before that, 32 out of 55 games double digit OREBs were allowed.

Small sample size for sure, but I've definitely been yelling at my TV/laptop much less ["BOX OUT, YOU WORTHLESS SACK OF ****" and the like].

You could assume that this could merely be a function of higher opposing FG% but that's not the case (1-2% difference from last 10 games to previous 10 or 20).

Every set of 10 games previous to the trade, opponents grabbed ~100 offensive rebounds. This latest set of 10 games: Only 65. Again small sample size, and opponents matter - but it's a positive sign.

http://stats.nba.com/teamStats.html?TeamID=1610612745&groupFeedtype=lastN&MeasureType=Opponent&PerMode=Totals

Allowing opponent 2nd chances (rebounds/putbacks/tip-ins) was the most infuriating aspect of playing PPatt/Morris. It doesn't seem to happen anymore even if DMo and T-Rob are not great positional defenders yet.

 

So do we have a bet or not? CXbby has given really good odds for this proposition.

 

The odds are actually low considering our statistical chance of making the playoffs is over the 10:1 odds he is giving.

And like Clutch said, why would a Rockets fan (a category I'd assume most of the board falls in to...) make a bet against their team?

 

Those odds don't factor in the Rockets losing world-beater Patrick Patterson aka backup on the Kings aka one of the worst players in the league. If someone truly believed that Patterson was vital to this team, why not jump on the bet when the Rockets are only a couple games out of the playoffs?

 

No, there is no argument that the Rockets have been a top 10 team this season. By the best measurement out there (SRS), the Rockets have been the 8th best team in the league. Of course, they don't play in the East so by your dumb standard, the Bucks are having just about as good a year as the Rockets.

Yes, it is stupid to say the Bobcats - you know, the worst team in NBA history last year - have had more success simply because they've made the playoffs in historically weak conferences then got swept right out.

You would trade the Wolves roster for the Bucks roster because the Bucks are in the playoffs? Yeah...

McHale started Patterson. Morey traded him away. And actually we've upgraded the position by subtraction. Almost any player the Rockets picked up would have been better than Patterson, tbh.

 

I never said the Bobcats have had more success than us, I said they made it to the playoffs more recently than us. Is that debatable? I would prefer to watch my team in May once every few years, excuse me for the pretentiousness.

So we are a #8 team in the league according to your preferred metric of SRS? That exactly proves my point that we aren't some clear-cut top 10 team. The teams below us on the SRS rating that are arguably better: Celtics, Knicks, Bulls, Warriors, Hawks, Nets, Lakers. It is not some obvious metric. Somehow you ignored the fact that I included only 3 or 4 East teams (obviously sans the Heat) in the probably better than us category. If for some reason you think I meant the Bucks in that, get off the stuff.

When was there talk of trading MN's roster for an 8th place East team? I mean could you straw man through your post any more?

Regarding Patterson, I just entirely doubt you ever played basketball if you think we got better at that position. Either that, or you have some deep-rooted opinion about PPat that clouds your judgement regarding him.

 

A few posters here who claim to be Rockets fans really want the Rockets to fail. You can pick them out based on how their posting frequency in the GARM fluctuates with the Rockets performance. Its apparent that they take a certain pleasure in the Rockets struggling, maybe because they feel it validates their opinions on the team's overall direction. Personally, I think its a sad position for a fan to be in.

 

Cool, I'd rather be a Rockets fan than a Bobcats but that's just me.

There is no argument that the Nets, Celtics, Bulls or Hawks are better. You simply must not watch anything but the standings (actually, this seems to be the case) to believe otherwise.

You're the one that compared the two teams.

Well, let's see. He produced laughable numbers (though on good efficiency!) while having league worst impact on both sides of the floor. Doesn't sound like someone I'd want to be wasting time with when I've got players sitting on the bench with much higher potential.

 

There is nothing no one can say that would make be believe the trade was not a huge win for us. (Not bad for Sac either, just not as good)

I liked PPat but really, Carl has gone overboard on this issue like PPat was his family member or lover. It's ridiculous and nonsensical.

I would do the trade over 100 out of 100 times even if we didn't make the playoffs this season.

 

Carl Herrera obviously didn't care for the trade, and I also have/had reservations about it, but I don't think his genuine opinion on it is as over-the-top as he makes it appear with his posts/threads. Its obvious to me that he's playing up this "troll turn" for fun. And while he's enjoying this persona for the time being, regardless of whether others are playing along with him, he'll eventually tire of it and get on with being one of the top posters on the forum.