The only reason why Steve HAS to have those sort of number is because the rest of the team wasn't providing enough cover. How many rebounds do Cato or EG or MoT provide? There wasn't enough boxing out by the bigger bodies to get those rebounds so Steve have to keep sneaking into the paint to try and make up for the lack of effort. Yao will be able to relieve Steve's rebounding duties this season so I'd expect that stat catagory to drop. I would like to see Francis picking up more assists though. Assuming that there will be more movement this season, with more people getting better looks, I hope Steve settles into a director of the offense while looking to create for himself given the chance. But more importantly to get bodies moving around for high percentage shots which he can distribute to. Can Steve be a TMac-type of player? Sure he can.. he's an explosive young player who can put the ball into the hoop. But do we want to see him evolve into that type of player? I think not. I'd like to see Steve become a reliable PG with good court vision, running the floor and dishing of, creating scoring chances for his teammates and getting this team more wins.
Well, the only stat that matters is wins. AI has that over him, whether or not he plays in the East. Francis supporters can only cite meaningless stats as a means to protect Francis. There is no stat for leadership, making players/the team better, and playing good defense. Francis is sorely lacking in those 3 non-statistical categories. Until he improves upon those 3 areas, Francis' head will always be on the chopping block.
2-23 26-31 records without and with steve last season. seemed to have improved us slightly. oh, but why post that since you apparenly find all stats meaningless as they are apparently just random numbers drawn from a hat and placed by players' names.
I never said Francis wasn't valuable. I just said he doesn't make others around him better, except for maybe Cato. And I am wondering what your stats have to do with comparing Francis to AI. My initial post was with regards to the stat comparisons of AI and Francis. If you are implying, with those stats, that Francis is in AI's class, then don't even bother replying.
i'm not going to say Francis is as good as Kobe or Tmac but I will say as far as all around stats go, he's right there with them in every category except scoring. after those two guys and possibly jason kidd, he's the most well rounded guard in the league. also as to this comment: "Francis is a better rebounding ,less assisting version of Marbury" until this season Francis was just all around superior to Marbury. this year something clicked in Marbury and he started playing better. However, he has several more years NBA experience than Francis. I'd love to see Francis figure out whatever Marbury did, because I think he's better than Marbury.
I've said it before, I'll say it again. I don't think that Kobe would have a damn thing on Francis if Stevie just had a few more inches on him. Athletically, there isn't a thing Kobe can do that Stevie can't otherwise, and mentally... well I really don't believe Kobe plays much smarter. I would almost say the same thing about TMac (whose even freaking taller), but I think TMac's got even more talent.
Kobe has "it", and lots of it. No way Steve approaches Kobe. But you'd be crazy to think that Steve can't average 25/5/5 on 42% shooting from the 2-spot. I think I'd rank GUARDS overall in the league something like this: Kobe T-Mac Iverson and Marbury Pierce and Kidd Francis That's pretty damn good for one of our TWO franchise players.
Exactly what I am tryin to say, Francis can't become Kobe or T-Mac due to his size limitation. He can be a great shoot guard, but there will be liability for him for defense, what Rockets need to do is to find a bigger ball-handler & defender as a point guard, so they can switch defense rotation when changing postion. For Steve to hack Bowen type players, he has to be quicker. Bowen can't guide quicker player like AI.
Although I agree that Steve could improve, I don't understand all the Steve bashing either. I love Steve. Sure the guy makes some bonehead plays now and again, but he's a really really good player. I for one am glad he'll be on the team for a long time.
Not sure why we're debating this. I think Steve is a great player, but he's no T-Mac. It's not a knock on Steve, but there's only a few people on T-Mac's level and I'd say they're KG, Kobe, and Duncan. Watching T-Mac play is pretty amazing, the guy can score at will and this is despite being double and triple teamed. Unlike Kobe he is about the only true scoring threat on his team.
This is my rank of the guards: Kobe/T-mac: T-mac is taller, has better offensive games but Kobe has more playoff experience, T-mac still needs to learn how to win under pressure, but Kobe has Shaq Pierce: Better size than Stevie/Marbury/Kiss, prototype SG Marbury/Kidd/Stevie: Marbury and Stevie have better offensive games than Kidd, Kidd is a better PG than Marbury and Stevie
Stop overrating Steve! The last thing we need is for Steve to believe that he is a super go-to guy who should take 30 shots a game. Steve should just be Steve. A guy who can score 20 ppg, draw a lot of fouls, create some havoc, grab rebounds and hit 3's. Nothing more, nothing less. There's no shame in being a good, but not great, player.
We're comparing apples and oranges here. Are we talking statistically? Statistically, Stevie could definitely be a (mini) T-Mac or Kobe and put up similar numbers. But height is the factor that instantly prevents Francis from being grouped with T-Mac or Kobe. T-Mac and Kobe have complete offensive arsenals. Drive, mid-range, 3 pt accuracy, finishing ability, passing, pull-up, and post up. Francis has all these in his game except for a strong post up game (or maybe the truly explosive pull up that T-Mac, Kobe, and before them, MJ had). There are several traditionally sized guards that have effective post up games in the league today - Payton, Cassell, Nick Van Exel, etc... but their post up games are limited by their heights. When Francis does post up, it is only against opponents around his height. Because of their superior athleticism and skills they possess at their size, T-Mac and Kobe can punish any opposing player when they have a mismatch. Unless it's Earl Boykins, Francis can only draw mismatches against taller players. 99.9% of the time he can get around them by penetrating. Often times because of switches, T-Mac and Kobe get matched up against smaller players, and when that happens you will often times see them take that player into post where they can get an easy shot over the top or draw a double or triple team for a pass to a cutting teammate or throw a swing pass to an open jump shooter. These situations never arise with Stevie simply because of his height. The only time Francis ever draws a double team is when he's out on the perimeter and the other team is worried about his penetrating ability. T-Mac and Kobe draw double teams wherever they are on the court. And this can have a huge affect on any possesion and the game in general. Like T-Mac and Kobe, Francis can pretty much get a shot of whenever he wants to, but he can't do it in the variety of ways that T-Mac and Kobe can. It's the ability to effectively produce, whether it be with a bucket or pass, in all situations of the game and on all areas of the court that distinguishes T-Mac and Kobe from Stevie. It's not a knock on Stevie, it's just that T-Mac and Kobe have such ridiculous abilities at their size.
Steve Francis might be to small to play SG, but look at Veshond Lenard, Allen Iverson, etc.. Steve Francis is not a point guard, and i think JVG is going to push that on him really quick. I think he should be a SG, and score more than ming, but ming should take alot of shots as well. Francis : 27.8 PPG Yao Ming : 18.5 PPG This is what #'s they should put up in the next 2 years.
ARE YOU KIDDING?!? T-Mac is 50 times better than Stevie! Well not really...they have the same skills. But thanks to God...T-Mac is taller. If Steve was 3 inches taller.......wow...he would have been awesome. He already is great. But nothing like T-Mac. T-Mac is the man. Steve could never lead a team like T-Mac. Fortunately, Steve has Cat and Yao and Posey and MoT and a new coach. Steve....if he could be like T-Mac....that would be fantabulous. WHAT WOULD BE EVEN BETTER?!? If we got T-Mac!!!!!! Cuttino Mobley, Eddie Griffin, Kelvin Cato, Terence Morris, and a 1st round draft pick for Tracy McGrady and Doc Rivers! Just kidding.
No, can be an Issiah Thomas. A better Marbury and more complete. A Jason KIdd with more talent and score. When Kidd scores he don't give assists, he haven't this talent. But Francis with Van Gundy can do that. Francis will be in future the Kobe of the Rockets but playing at PG
Why are we even saying if steve were 3 inches taller? He's not and never will be. That's just who he is. Maybe if he were 3 inches taller he wouldn't be as quick. In any case, that's like wondering what kind of player Barkley would've been if he was 3 inches taller.
no one...and i mean no one makes the game look easier (offensively) than tracy mcgrady. steve's points, much like allen iverson's require much more energy expended than tmac.
Well for one, it's fun and interesting discussing the "what ifs" of basketball, whether it's "what will the Rockets be like with JVG as the coach?" or "what if Steve played SG?" It's fun to imagine what "could be," which is what half of all the posts on this bbs are about. 3 years from now we will be discussing, "Which team would win, the Yao led Rockets or the Hakeem led Rockets?"
