Can Stephon Marbury help our team more than Rafer Alston does?

Kobe and Shaq were fine as teammates when they were winning titles. then their relationship went south when Kobe no longer could accept being second fiddle and the team fell apart.

As for Rafer being a better teammate, how does refusing to play when your team is short handed make Marbury anything but a horrible teammate.

Marbury is a bum now. He was never a superstar player and now years later he has been forced to stay away from a team that has Chris Duhon as a starting PG.

Why dont we go out and sign JR Rider and Latrell Sprewell since they were decent players years ago and also locker room cancers.

 

1 on 1 between rafer and starbury?

I take Starbury every time, maybe rox will lose some edge on defense, slower on ball movement, but just for the open shots that he is able to make i take starbury.

And his still only 30 years old.

Cancer in the locker room? The team is laden with veterans, you have multiple all stars- tmac, yao, sf3, barry and artest?. Players that have been there done that, rafer and scola. And a coach who have a proven record with problem players in Rick.

And if its only a vet min, i take him. And if that opens up trade possibilities for rafer and head, that make things so much sweeter.

1 last thing, a good Samaritan does not make you a good baller. And i always believe that a player in a winning team will always make much less dumb moves.

 

I can't believe there are people that would actually vote "yes". Well, there are people who support whaling too, so maybe they are the same people. MARBURY IS THE PLAGUE. He's cancer, AIDS, the dengue and whatever else disgusting disease you can name. Marbury will mess you team up like a super fruit blender. SAY NO TO MARBURY! I don't care if Rafer shoots 0-20 all night, or commits more TOs than Dwayne Wade, or calls it quits like T-Mac. A two year old on the team is better than Marbury, because MARBURY IS DYNAMITE! HE'S TNT! HE'S THE NUCLEAR BOMB! I don't give a damn who the team brings in, as long as it's not Marbury nor Tinsley. You guys might not care about chemistry, but winning teams do.

 

Lol at "Starbury." Friend or family member?

 

If Rafer does all those things you mentioned then we will most definitely NOT be a championship team.

even when he is doing "well", we are still a marginal contending team.

and a two year old better than marbury?? i think a two-year old would have problems bringing the ball up court and getting passes and shots off not to mention defending bigger point guards (everyone in the league except maybe earl boykins.. is he still in the league?)

let's be realistic here.

 

I support Rafer.

No to Steph.

 

And the whole forlorn experience is awaiting to repeat itself for the next NBA team...

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does collecting a 22 million dollar paycheck and refusing to suit up and play constitute being professional in your book or not?

does quitting on his teammates seem professional?

does walking out on your team and electing to miss the rest of the season seem professional?

the guy wasn't benched this year out of nowhere. he had three seasons of tumult and turmoil in NY. he repeatedly QUIT on his teammates and now it has come back to bit him where it hurts.

he can't talk his way out of this one using the media, making him seem like the victim here.

maybe if he would have accepted a buyout things would be different. but he hasn't so they are not. and the only one to blame is Staph.

 

Dude,

You have a serious hatred for this man.... Did you lose a bet on him or something..

does collecting a 22 million dollar paycheck and refusing to suit up and play constitute being professional in your book or not No one forced the Knicks to pay him that money, they did it all on their own. The first thing that the KNICKS coach told him was "He's not in their plans and don't plan to suit up"... So again the organization made that decision and they should have settled this during the off season.

does walking out on your team and electing to miss the rest of the season seem professional? A team is one that sticks together... Where was Quitten Richardson when Marbury was told he was not in the Knicks plans, where was the teammates when they had a full bench? Again this comes down to the KNicks organization... They laid this dynamite out there and now it's blowing up in their faces.

the guy wasn't benched this year out of nowhere. he had three seasons of tumult and turmoil in NY. he repeatedly QUIT on his teammates and now it has come back to bit him where it hurts. Again this falls back on the Knicks organization....

he can't talk his way out of this one using the media, making him seem like the victim here. Doesn't look like he's trying to talk his way out of anything... Basically, he's being quiet, the ones that are talking are the Knicks organization. They are the ones constinently in the news talking about the situation. For once in his immature life he's handling things like a man and a true professional. Showing up to practice, not causing any problems what so ever.

maybe if he would have accepted a buyout things would be different. but he hasn't so they are not. and the only one to blame is Staph. Well at least now you are getting to the root of the problem, but you are blaming the wrong person. This has already been stated before in other threads, but I will repeat it again anyway. How do the Knicks organization get rid of Steph, WITHOUT (here is the key word "WITHOUT") having to be him his entire salary.

So let's look at the entire scenario.....

1) THE KNICKS..... THE KNICKS.... Were the ones that decided to give Steph that salary. They knew about his past and they knew who he was on and off the court. Steph did not walk in the room with a gun in his hand demanding they give him this HUGE salary.. So they only have themsleves to blame.

2) D'Antonio has nothing but revenge in his heart and mind for Steph... He was hoping that Steph would have blown up by now, but for some unknow reason Steph decided to grow and be a man. So now D'Antonio has a prob, he can't get rid of the man for no reason at all, so now what do I do..... Hmmmmmm.. Let's cause some controversy and use the media as an aid. Again D'Antonio was not expecting these results, neither he nor Walsh were prepared for the negative publicity they would get... So they only have themsleves to blame.

3) To break this down this is all about politics and money.... They want to get rid of Steph, but not pay him ALL of his money... That's right all of his money. He did not make them offer him the contract and he has done nothing not to earn his paycheck. The Knicks organization were the ones that said "You are not in our plans for now or in the future"... They made these decision not Steph. So if I go to my job (Which I have a 2 year contract) and they tell me they no longer need my services, they have to pay me the remainder of my contract...... NOT ONE PENNY LESS!!!!

So as I have stated above "The Knicks organization only have themsleves to blame."

 

he will just cause problem off the court.

 

with no doubt that Rafer is way better than Steven Marbury.

Marbury is selfish and shoot-first guard that would damage or destroy our team chemistry,I don't see he will change his style despite his situation right now.

Would somebody here wanna roll the dice that he's gonna help us on both defensive and offensive end without destroying our team chemistry?I don't see it fit and he's fit in our roster.Period.

 

I wouldnt exactly say always considering what Burress just did for the 10-1 defending champion NY Giants.

Also, I believe the Pacers were doing quite well when Artest and Jackson went into the stands.

 

You have serious love for this man, and I cant figure out why.

Say what you want about the Knicks being stupid for signing him, but they have every right to tell him he is not in their plans. New management came in and decided he didnt fit. That doesnt mean they have to automatically buy him out and pay him 20 million so he can go play somewhere else. If they decide to sit his ass on the bench, then he should sit his ass on the bench and collect his paychecks.

You are right, if your boss says you are no longer needed they have to pay the remainder of your contract. Doesnt mean, they cant make you come in and sit in the corner if you want all of that money. And when you refuse to do so, even though you are still being paid in full, they have every right to fire you or stop paying you.

As for his teammates, why in the world are they supposed to be upset if a new coach doesnt want to play Marbury. If your company changed bosses and the new guy decided to let someone go, are you gonna make a big stink about it?

Saying this is all on the Knicks is crazy. If Marbury wants out bad enough, give up enough cash to get released. Otherwise, sit there, play whenever you are asked to play and keep collecting your checks. Its bizarre to me that people think organizations that pay millions of dollars to these athletes somehow owe them anything.

 

T_Man, I only fall in the majority of Rockets fans who have actually paid any attention to this man 's horrible career. He has single-handedly made every team he joined WORSE after he left Minnesota because he had to be Starbury.

yes, the Knicks franchise was DOOMED before he arrived, I'll give you that. but there's no way his fallout with Larry Brown, teammates, and then Isiah Thomas can be pinned on the organization. That was all basketball. That was what happened out there on the court reflecting in the locker room and vice versa. There is absolutely no excuse or anyone to blame but Staph.

just answer the question, what happened with Larry Brown, and what happened last season with Isiah Thomas? why did the coaches and the teammates lose confidence in Staph, on the basketball court, and in the locker room?

 

There isn't much to debate here. The answer is yes. However, lets talk about why to back up the assertion. Again, remember we are comparing Marbury to Rafer.

The arguments against Marbury usually paint him as a bonehead who is a selfish player, a distraction off the court, and somebody who kills team chemistry.

I don't think Marbury has had any off the court incidents (and no, excentric interviews don't count) except for him cheating on his wife once. On the other hand, Stephon has done a great deal for the community (including a visible presence in contributing to the relief efforts for Hurricane Katrina) and we are all familiar with the Starbury brand.

Rafer, on the other hand, has had many negative off the court incidents and legal problems (some of which he has been acquitted and others in which he has been guilty).

So Marbury gets the edge for being the better guy off the court and Rafer is more of a distraction to the team off the court.

As far as being a bonehead and playing selfishly, I think both are guilty in this regards. Rafer takes ill-advised shots and often gets into 1 on 1 battles with opposing pgs who are better than him, which usually ends detrimentally for the Rockets. Marbury has exhibited selfish play as well, but I would argue that it is overblown. Stats don't tell you everything, but Marbury usually averages a lot of assists. There's only been one season in which Marbury has played at least 60 games and averaged less than 6 assists. Rafer has never averaged more than 6.7 his entire career. Another key difference is that Marbury has the skill set to play "selfishly" if need be. I'm not saying he should or should not, but he has the talent to do so while Rafer does not.

So it looks like Marbury is less of a "bonehead" and selfish player than Rafer Alston.

As far as basketball skills are concerned, Marbury is head and shoulders above Rafer. Alston, at best (and I'm being very generous), is an average pg. He can't hit open shots and is not a playmaker. These are two crucial skills that the Rockets need in a pg. If you can't hit open shots and are not a playmaker, you are not much use to this team at the pg position. Conversely, it's pretty much common knowledge that Marbury can hit open shots and is a playmaker. He can attack the basket and finish or create for others. Again, those are two attributes that Rockets need desperately from their pg.

Marbury gets the nod as being the better basketball player as well.

Marbury is often depicted as somebody who kills team chemistry, but proponents of this argument don't usually offer up any evidence to back it up. It's difficult to say whether this is true or not, because chemistry is not something you can measure. If having constant off the court problems is how you would measure this, then Rafer kills team chemistry and Marbury would not. If you measure it by looking at selfish play on the court, Rafer again would seem to be more of a chemistry killer than Marbury. The current incident with D'Antoni is the Knicks' fault in my view. Most reports say that Marbury came into camp in great shape and proved he deserved to start. He was shafted by the team. So, in turn, he did the same thing to them, which is understanable - especially when Danilo Gallinari (who?) with apparent back problems played ahead of Stephon.

Also, this team has strong personalities and mature ones like Ron Artest and Shane Battier, who can be a positive influence on Marbury. Particularly, Artest who is from NY, which means he can relate to Marbury.

The Rockets are in win now mode. The window of opportunity is rapidly closing. There needs to be a sense of urgency. This team will not achieve a great deal of post-season success with Rafer Alston at the helm. The Rockets need help badly at the pg position. Marbury would be a low risk, high reward situation and Houston should go after him.

 

across110thstreet,

You just answered my question....

"what happened with Larry Brown, and what happened last season with Isiah Thomas".

The fact is, he was giving the contract by the Knicks.. So yes that makes them responsible.... This would be the same as the Dallas Cowboys giving Pac-man Jones a HUGE contract and he then goes out to be the knucklehead that he is... The organization knew what they were getting into and they hold that responsibility.

Now, Steph has been a bad seed in the past... No arguement on that..

My statement was this.. In this SITUATION... Nothing about his past, nothing about his stupidity.. In this SITUATION... He has carried himself professionally and it looks like (I know that looks can be deceiving) Steph is growing up.

Now the OP started this thread about Step or Rafer and I would choose Steph, he brings a lot to the table.. Both good and bad, but with the current roster of vets and the fact that Steph is an a contract year, plus he knows this is his last shot in the league... I would take Steph.

 

They are both responsible. If you hire someone, and they end up being a terrible employee, are you soley to blame? No. It works both ways.

Some of the supporters of the "take a chance on Marbury theme" keep bringing up our roster full of veterans. Well, one guy has decided to shut it down for 3 weeks (maybe more or less, even he admitted he was guessing), one is a silent player who lacks aggressiveness, and the other is an already volatile player who is yet to even remotely fit into our system. That's our big three. Then you have Rafer (whom people are obviously looking to ship out), Battier (who leads through example) and Barry (who is currently injured and has been completely ineffective).

I just don't see it. The Derrick Coleman, Glenn Robinson, Tim Thomas, and Stephon Marbury's of the world will always be players I never want to see on my team. Tons of talent, but don't care about anyone but themselves.

Regardless, I think we've exhausted this debate. You say you aren't defending Marbury , but you clearly do like the guy. No question you are defending him in this scenario. That's fine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. i just don't think Marbury has shown any more maturity then D'Antoni has. To me, it's an obvious pissing match between the two. The difference is that D'Antoni is the head coach (and Chris Duhon is playing well) and Marbury is simply a player. If he doesn't fit into the system then they don't owe it to him to play. He has the right to keep every dollar they paid him (we agree there), but they aren't obligated to give him playing time.

 

King1,

I am not a big fan of Marbury, but I am always supportive of guys who seem to act like they are trying to turn their lives around.

I can respect your response and your opinion...

 

He usually waits until his 2nd year to become a cancer. He improves teams in his first season, or it could just be dumb luck.

 

If he becomes a cancer you can cut him...we are talking about an all star talent for the veteran minimum.

Steph has been an idiot for a good amount of his career, but how much of that lunacy these last few years has been because he was up there playing with the Knicks?

That has to be frustrating as hades.

So, this year they bring in D'Antoni and a system that is perfect for Stephs game, he responds by saying he will accept whatever role they give him and trains hard in the offseason to get in great shape.....plays well in the preseason and then...on opening night gets sucker punched by D'Antoni.....for no reason.

Steph is the one being the professional in this situation, the Knicks are pulling a Larry Brown, trying to get rid of him and save some money......D'Antoni is using him as a way to grab control of the team and he knows that this year doesn't matter so there is no reason to play him.

The Knicks should have released Steph, or told him this in the offseason....

Steph has been very professional through all of this....and I for one would take him on the Rockets in a heart beat. He has a lot to prove, and is a significant upgrade over Rafer....

DD