I'd like to see some speed in the backcourt. That's all I care about myself. Somebody who can get the offense moving.
Barry's a good passer and a very low turnover player. Hudson is not. Here's the thing; Barry's a much better shooter than Fisher, just as unselfish (he often passes up good shots), has some of the best shooting percentages in the league, and is not much worse on defense. If he's really asking for 3 years at 18mil, I'd jump all over it. His deal would expire the same year as Mo's, I believe. I just don't think Derek Fisher is a good starting option for us.
I didn't say I want Brent Barry or Hudson, just putting my 2 cents in as to why I don't want Fisher. There aren't any obvious great solutions at the PG spot in the Rox price range. I'd rather the Rox go after Rafer Alston than Fisher though. And, though he still hasn't done squat in the NBA, I have high hopes for Gaines in the future as well. Passing is over rated? Tell that to Tim Duncan, Magic Johnson, Kevin Garnett, and Hakeem. If Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant isn't on your team, somebody better be able to pass the ball.
I think the idea is that assist numbers are overrated as a measure of passing ability. (Just as steals are overrated as a measure of defensive ability.) This is particularly true when dealing with the triangle. As someone has pointed out, the triangle didn't yield a lot of assists for the nominal PG in Chicago, and likewise the Lakers used it very effectively in a way that left Kobe with lots of assists but Fisher with just a few. That's because you want Kobe driving and dishing, not Fisher. Fisher's job was to get the ball to the right people in the right place, hit big shots when needed even when not shooting a lot, play tough defense, and know where to be when the big shots got double teamed. Alston over Fisher if they're the same price? I'd take Fisher.
3 year/8 million, 1 year 4.5 million, or something in between. I am shocked after our Posey debate last year you could consider paying a player who will be 30 and coming off his worst shooting season that much. I guess it just shows rationale and pragmatic people can disagree widely in the outcome if their base valuation of the player and their risk for not fulfilling expectations are little different..
I'm swayed toward BB now. If we can get him for 3 years at the MLE or less, then pull the trigger. Barry can bring the ball up just as well as Fisher, but Barry can shoot the lights out and has height for the lob-in pass. Having 3 smart tall guards in the starting lineup who can all pass and shoot to surround Ming would be awesome. On d, eh, Barry isn't a good defender, but he isn't necessarily a sieve either. He would be at least as good as SF was this past year, esp with his height and long arms. But Fish is a good second option, maybe even a 1st depending on what exactly his salary demands are.
I thought Bueller already did a pretty good job of responding to waran007's post for the numbers, but let me add this. As stated previously, the pick and roll was part of the reason for those numbers, but also, with teams like Sacramento and Minnesota that have scoring studs like Peja and KG, you'd rather double them and force Bibby and Hudson to beat you instead of Peja and KG. There is a reason that Fisher was playing 4th quarters over a future Hall of Famer who is known as "the Glove" for his defense. It's because a better coach than me thought that Fisher gave his team the best chance to win. Call me crazy, but I think wins are more important than stats. I do agree that we shouldn't be doing a long-term contract for Fisher. But I think up to 3 years would be just fine. If the Lakers split up as expected, I do very much like our chances to contend next year, not 3 years from now.
I think will easily get outbid for Barry because there's a lot of teams that want his offense. I think we're better off concentrating on guys that won't get as much bidding attention because they're not offensive-minded PGs. One thing I don't understand. As someone who would have been happy to keep Francis, I don't get how so many of my fellow fans were eager to run him out of town because of perceived poor decisions and inability to close out games, yet the same folks are now dissing Fisher, who has always played his best and smartest clutch basketball in 4th quarters. Also, everyone seemed to be complaining about Francis shooting too much for several years now instead of being a passing point guard, now there's all this love for scoring PGs like Barry and Hudson immediately after we've added the scoring champ to our roster.
Barry would be fine. I think he'd be an adequate defender. But I really think it's moot because I think we'll get outbid for him by quite a lot. We don't need his offense as much, but other teams are willing to pay up for that.
Is anyone even considering Damon Jones? He put up great numbers after TJ got hurt and he definetely shoot the 3. I am not sure about his defense, but he sounds like a great backup PG for the Rox!
What he said. Fisher has caused a lot of other teams pain through the years in 4th quarters. A guy like that hurts me enough, I hate him. But if it's pain caused by good play that knocks my team out of the playoffs instead of nasty remarks about my team, I welcome him with open arms if he wants to cross over.
If we didn't already have several backup PGs on the roster, I'd be all for signing Damon Jones, but as the Rox situation currently stands, there's no point.
Well I'm one of those who is happy to see Francis out(not because of him shooting too much though, more his decisions on the court). I don't want Hudson at all. I'd rather pick up Ward for the minimum than take Hudson. Just doesn't fit the make-up of this team at all. Barry I don't see as a "scoring pg", at least in the sense of a Jamal Crawford or NVE. He doesn't need the ball in his hands all the time. He would be a sort of rich man's Kenny Smith imo. If the Rockets offer the full MLE for 3 years to barry, you are right, that probably wont be the best offer, but I'm betting it'll be at least comparable to his other offers. It just depends on what Barry actually wants to do.
people of all the posting of stats only matters to a certain extent but the bottom line is whos better defender and who will fit in the system.....my money is on fisher.now if barry was a better defender im all over him bein our pg but i dont see him fitting in here under the jvg system and his defense is skeptical.
what r next year's free agent pgs. we could sign a pg just to be a starter for a year then look for a better one in the next offseason
I share your view of preferring Ward for the minimum over Hudson. But that'll surely draw objections from the anti-Fisher camp that thinks Fisher is over the hill since Ward is four years older than Fisher. I really think it'll help to have a mature, respected leader with Finals experience running the offense. Ward and Fisher both fit that bill. That way, we'll be contenders right away and can take some tiime to have a good mentor groom a young guy like Gaines to inherit the spot. If a true rising star comes into play for a good price, fantastic, but otherwise, I'd rather go for the best veteran for the buck and not take any big chances when so much of our team is new already. I would certainly take a rich man's Kenny Smith any day, given that one of my fondest memories remains, to this day, his game-tying 3 pointer against the Magic in Game 1 of the Finals. And I do agree that Barry would fare better than Hudson in scoring when needed without having to shoot a lot. I just suspect Barry might be too rich for us, but I'd be perfectly content to be dead wrong about that.
Um... Barry is actually 3 years older than Fisher. If Barry wants *just* a 4-year contract, he'll be 37 at the end of it. I've seen rumors posted on this board saying that he's looking for 5 or 6 years. Thanks, but no thanks.
Derek Fisher strikes me as the type of player that needs veteran players around him. Not the type that provides veteran leadership.
Just to clarify, I definitely agree that the Laker's ineptness at the pick and roll is one of the reasons for the numbers I posted. However, if Fisher comes here, he'll be faced with a similar problem. The Rockets last year had a tough time defending the pick and roll and yet weren't torched nearly as badly as Fisher was in the past few postseasons. Let's face it, to make up for Yao's unwillingness (and rightfully so) to step out to guard the pick and roll, we need a fleet-footed defensive point guard to make up for it. Fisher is a "smart" defensive player, i.e. he flops. His speed and quickness have never been his strong suit (hence the flops) and that's why he and shaq were always killed on the pick and roll. Now, Brent Barry is definitely not an elite defensive pg either. In my opinion, it may be in our best interests to plug in a cheap option like Arroyo or Jones and use our money this summer to get a quality big. Signing a questionable player simply to get a big name is how you end up with contracts like Moochie's and Howard's. We scoffed at giving Posey the full MLE last summer and now we're willing to give it to a 30 year old backup point guard?
