Can a Pro-Fisher person explain those numbers? Bueller? Bueller? Don't mess up this team by adding Fisher.
Numbers don't mean anything. Opposing point guards' ability to "torch" Fisher is a product of the Lakers' inability to defend the pick and roll. Fisher never gets any help when he runs into a pick. Fisher is a good defender one-on-one. Making the argument that he gets torched by elite point guards is completely baseless. First of all, the Lakers can't defend the P&R. Second, there's a reason why people get torched by elite point guards. They're ELITE. Nobody can shut down an elite point guard. Complain about Fisher's defense all you want, but what about all the other available point guards? Barry? Arroyo? You've gotta be kidding me. Of the available point guards this offseason, Fisher's defense definitely ranks significantly above average. Now, I'm not pro-Fisher per se. I think he's definitely lost a step or two, and he's not getting any younger. Nonetheless, I have to admit that he'd be a good fit for this team....at least for the next few seasons
Seems to me that most everyone in the regular season shut down these elite guards on a nightly basis.
Are you even reading what I'm typing? The Lakers can't defend the pick and roll. Opposing guards always exploit this weakness. If you actually watch any of these games, you'd see that Fisher frequently runs into the opposing center setting a screen. One of two things happen afterwards: 1. Shaq doesn't even bother trying to come out and help, leaving the guy open for the jumper. 2. Shaq does come out and half-heartedly help, but leaving the lane wide open. The opposing point guard can just go around a very slow Shaq for an easy 2 points. In a system where JVG emphasizes team defense, we won't have the same problems. Fisher will fit in just fine.
I see what you are saying, but I still don't see Fisher as anything but an average D PG with a below average shot. If playing with Shaq and Kobe doesn't inflate your numbers, then I don't think TMac and Ming will either.
Since people think Fisher's Defense isn't any good, can someone name some PGs that play better D? I guarantee it'd be a short list. Why doesn't anyone think Gary Payton had a lot to do with Fisher's benching? The Lakers wanted to start the future hall of famer, but they ALWAYS finished with Fisher in the fourth quarter...doesn't that tell you something? Hell, GP was complaining regularly about playing time and Phil Jackson had to keep him happy somehow. The more I think about it the more Fisher sounds like the right choice. Barry would be nice if we could afford him, but Fisher is probably the best of whats left. Oh, and I wouldn't get too high on Arroyo...the Jazz are probably going to throw a lot of cash at him this offseason, more than Barry is getting.
I'll agree with you and say that Fisher isn't the answer to our hole at PG. This offseason our choices are Snow: smart and defensive-minded with a terrible shot. Barry: smart, great shot, but horrible at defense. Fisher: smart, decent shot, good defense, but doesn't excel at either. Regardless of who you choose, you get someone who's aging and lacks a thing or two. As far as age goes, Arroyo would be good, but I think he's a RFA this summer. The Jazz will probably match whatever we throw his way.
You guys know what the letters MLE stand for? Well, the M stands for MIDDLE. Do you know where this number comes from? They calculate the average salary in the league, and that turns out to be the MLE. Now, when someone comes on here and says Derek Fisher is mediocre, which also begins with an M btw, and that we shouldn't get him for that reason.... Well, you're a bit dellusional. If Derek Fisher is mediocre, then he is worth the MID LEVEL EXCEPTION. But just to defend him: - Name the person with the highest assist numbers in a triangle offense. - Derek Fisher averages around 3 assists, but how many TO's does he have? Around 1. Steve Francis averages 6 assists per game, does that make him a good passer? Jason Kidd averages 4 TO's per game, is he a bad passer? It's the RATIO that counts people. - If Fisher is only slightly better than Lue, then we sign Fisher and ship Lue somewhere else. Personally, I would sign Fisher, then send Tyronne Lue to a team that needs a PG short term, and acquire Antonio Daniels (along with Potapenko or James) from the Sonics in exchange for the TE. This way, we aren't stuck with two small PG's. - Other posters have made it very clear that he shoots a terriffic percfentage from 3-pt land. Last year was a fluke. Over his career, he's been a good shooter, and has stepped it up in the playoffs. - The difference between him and Lue is the number of years they've played with a big man. It's the fact that Lue refused to play defense last year for the Magic, yet only averaged around 10ppg? Fisher averages Lue-like numbers, and plays defense at the same time. By no means is he the answer, or the absolute best option out there... But he's a big step up over Tyronne Lue.
See waran007's post for the numbers - using 2003 since that was a "good" year for Fisher as a starter. Go for Barry or Arroyo. If we can't get either of them sign a backup for Lue and go shopping for a 5/4. But let's not saddle ourselves with a long term contract for this guy.
He couldn't "beat out" Payton because Phil Jackson thought he needed to massage Payton's ego. Every sports guy in LA criticized the Zen Master for not starting Fisher over Payton in the Finals. I've said it elsewhere. Let me say it again. I don't like floppers. But being able to flop effectively is not as easy as you think. You have to have legitimate positioning for the refs to buy it. All good floppers are good fundamental defenders. Look at Divac and Stockton.
So if the defense of Fisher is that LA couldn't defend the pick'n'roll, what the hell was Phil "I'm better than Red" Jackson doing? I thought he was the greatest coach in history? What if we can't defend the pick'n'roll? What if Yao or (insert PF) are too slow to help out, or consistently leave someone open under the basket? We are ****ed. I'm convinced. The Fisher pickup will be bigger than the TMac trade! If he was that great, the Lakers would be more aggressive in resigning him.
Nobody here is arguing that Fisher is a great PG or that he's the answer to all our needs. We're just saying that he's a good fit and is an obvious upgrade over Tyronn Lue. As for our team's ability to defend the P&R, we're much better at it than the Lakers. JVG's system emphasizes team defense. Yao moves more quickly than Shaq. Furthermore, help comes quickly from elsewhere even if Yao doesn't get there in time. You can't defend the P&R 100% of the time, but it's not the glaring weakness in the Rockets defense the same way it is in the Lakers.
I'd like to get Fisher. He seems like the best fit around Yao and T-Mac out of the names being thrown out there. But I wouldn't want to overpay him, and I think the full MLE for more than 2-3 years is overpaying. I could see possibly see four years for 16 million, but that's as far as I'd go, and I hope the Rockets do the same. As long as Yao and T-Mac can make this team championship contenders, we should have no problem picking up good veteran role players for a decent price. We don't need to tie ourselves up with Fisher for a long, expensive contract.
A smart defensive PG with low turn-over to assist ratio. T-Mac and Yao will draw most of the attention on offense. Oh and it would be nice if the PG could hit a wide open jumper as he should have many opportunities.
According to an L.A. radio station that I was listening to(1150 AM) ... They said that DFish might be in a sign and trade deal to the Rockets for either Lue or the TE. Anyone else hear anything similar to this from the Houston end?
That would be a good deal. That way the Rockets still have their FULL MLE to go afte a big man. If we traded Lue we could always get Charlie Ward with the veteran's minimum as our backup PG.
