I wouldn't be surprised if we did a search and found this phrase (or similar) appearing in over 50% of the threads on this board. Someone want to explain what exactly it means? Obviously it holds a lot of meaning as it is thrown around so frequently ... heck, look at the post-game thread Rockets vs. Hawks and almost every other post contains the phrase. So, is it ... a) the perception that a team (or player) has given their complete effort, without reserving anything b) measured in visible actions such as driving to the hoop, getting back on defense, diving for loose balls c) wearing your emotions on your sleeve while you play Secondly, what is the actual value of "playing with heart"? Ironically, we've had some ugly wins in which the fans are disgusted with what is seen, and today's loss was one that people were happy with the process despite the outcome. It seems to me, then, that "playing with heart" has value in terms of fan appreciation of the product, while it may or may not correlate with reality. In other words, a team could, over the course of a year, go 45-37 and "play with heart" and the fans could be really happy. Or, a team could 50-32 but with the perception of dogging it and the fans would be pissed. What is reality here? Is heart really a reflection of initial expectations more than anything? In other words, if you genuinely don't think a team is capable of any greatness, but they do something good, you call that "heart" but if you clearly think a team is capable of doing good things but fall short, that is the opposite of heart. All in all, I understand what people are trying to get at when they say, "playing with heart." But, in the real world, does that have any utility at all? In other words, someone could be a turnover machine, harm the team concept, hog the ball, but play with heart ... is that of any real value in the end? Or does it just make you feel fuzzy inside even though your team lost? If there is true utility derived from this, how can it be measured? After all, ultimately, basketball is a game that comes down to two simple numbers - points of team 1 and points of team 2 - who has more? So, how can something so subjective yet thrown around so frequently be translated into the bottom line? Talk to me like you have an MBA and this is all about business ... Write a "How to be a successful NBA player, and play with heart" book ... I'm not convinced that it means jack other than a way for fans to dog on one player/team and support another ... unless you can successfully boil the idea down to the essence and explain it ...
It's about wanting it so bad that you are will to sacrifice everything in order to get there. Wanting the responsibility and putting it all out there on the line. Two of the best examples from recent history is Bobby Sura when he was practically playing with bone on bone in his knees and Cuttino Mobley when he was playing on two bum ankles and averaged 20+ pts a game for a season. There is reason why Sura is probably the most popular rocket not part of the championship squad even though he only played for about half a season.
It's one of the many 'cliques' in basketball that, over time, fans have created their own meaning for. It can't be verified by any sort of unbiased evidenced. It's just not meaningful. I don't think we as fans are in a position to judge whether or not a player is playing with heart, but I can't legislate what people believe. It's still nothing more than a personal feeling, though.
yeah i dont get it either. tmac obviously has a heart since he is breathing. people saying he has not heart makes no sense at all.
Best example imho is RudyT's Rox of old... Hakeem Olajuwon Kenny Smith Sam Cassell Go back and watch them on classic sports TV, and you will see what HEART is. Heck, watch the Giants win last year's super bowl and you will see what heart is. T-Mac has no heart. He is trying to live up to this mega contract and play through pain. But the degree of pain and his effort on the court speak to his stupidity in even being on the court to begin with. Playing with heart does NOT mean playing through pain. Heck, you could be 100% healthy, but to give up your body and to play extended minutes, and to play with passion... that is heart, that is courage, that is, as RudyT once coined, "THE HEART OF A CHAMPION" Here in the regular season, there are choices and decisions to be made about playing through pain. And unlike the playoffs, where it's lose and go home for an extended vacation, people can be more deliberate on whether to play in pain and through pain or without. With T-Mac, I think fault lies in either T-Mac himself who fails to realize that he is hurting his team more by playing through pain than not, or to his doctors and other abettors who encourage him to play. What you're seeing right now is NOT heart OR courage... it's just plain stupidity adding up in LLLLLLLs... theSAGE
Interesting that the two examples you choose - Giants last year, and the Rockets of mid-90s happen to be champions. That leads me to believe one of two things : 1) for some fans, truly playing with "heart" means you will win inevitably a championship 2) for some fans, winning a championship means being able to look back with golden sunglasses and call it heart in retrospect One way or the other, by this definition it seems that performance and heart and inextricably tied together - if you have heart you're gonna ultimately succeed. This seems convenient - if you don't win its because you didn't have heart, and if you win ... see, it's because they play with heart, man... Following the Rockets, I don't quite remember the players necessarily playing with something like "heart" -- I remember Cassell being a fearless sparkplug off the bench, Mr Instant Offense (actually some similarity to Brooks today). I remember Kenny being quite a limited PG, but one who could drill the 3-ball at a fairly consistent clip, helpful when you have an inside-out game like the Rockets did. I remember Olajuwon, not necessarily having anything identifiable as heart, but just simply being monstrous -- for a few years, bar none the single most unstoppable player in the league, with a huge impact on both sides of the ball. If I could classify anyone that "played with heart", I would say Elie and Maxwell fit the bill, but perhaps that's because they were the guys who were most emotional and expressive.
To me if you do what it takes to win, then you are playing with heart. Alot of people would define heart as putting in maximum effort and playing hard every play...I think that its a fine definition. But personally, I'll take the guy who helps the team win over the guy who puts in maximum effort every play. Chauncy Billups is a good example of a player that doesnt appear to be putting in maximum effort all the time, but he still is a big difference maker. He hits big shots, he sets up his team mates, and he makes good decisions. He never really shows emotion and he is always cool on the court, but I'd say he has heart because he does what it takes to help his team win games. On the flip side. There are players like Mark Madsen who give everthing they have on the court, but the fact is, if they didn't then they wouldn't be in the league. When its winning time, you definantly dont want a player like Madsen on the court. Mcgrady definantly lacks something right now. He is just not right, and i can understand people questioning his heart and his desire to win. He quit on the team the other night. That is unacceptable behavior from your highest paid player. Fans have the right to be ticked off for that. If he keeps playing at the level he has been playing at, we won't go anywhere this season. That's why I hope one of two things happens fast: A. He starts playing better and helping us win games again or B. We make a move for guys who can help us get where we want to be.
Do how Wafer did, and follow his steps, I think he is a good guy, full of energy, can also call him the 2nd Carl Landry. During this lossing streak, he is the MVP of this team. Adelman should give him much time to show, what tmac can do now he can also do well. I trust..
My definition of "playing with heart" is simple. A player, especially a professional player, has to play with energy and intensity and gives his best to win a game and I term him as "playing with heart". You do your best to contest your opponent's every shot, use all your energy and will power to get every rebound - that is playing with heart. Failing to do all these is playing with "no heart". Teams playing with no heart usually lose games and make their fans feel shamed and being cheated (The Raptor game). Teams playing with all heart, even lose a game, make their fans proud of their efforts and usually it's an exciting game and a loss with diginity (The Hawks game) and their fans believe that if that team is continuously playing at that level, it is on the right path to success.
Have you ever played sports at a high level? Any of you? "Hard work beats talent when talent does not work hard..." Heart is Pride, Dedication, Leadership, Professionalism... Heart is wanting to give up your body for the love of the game... Heart is wanting to go to battle with your team EVERY night...
Why meander about it. Just say what you mean. You love Tracy and all this pathetic attitude on the court doesn't matter to you. Next time just start the thread I love Tracy and I want to kiss his feet. This thread is as pathetic as Tmac. The Rockets played a tough team last night without TCrap, Battier and Artest and almost won. Compare that too the performance against the lousy Rapter with TCrap. He is the epitamy of loser and a pathetic excuse for a star. There is no question right now the Rockets are better off without him.
There's no Tracy loving going on here, but let's not meander about it. You're an idiot. You're pathetic, but continue to bring your assumptions. The fact is, I find comments about heart to be substance-less and meaningless. If fans want to assert something about one player being valuable or a detriment to a team, then quantify that with some numbers, with some reliable, sound arguments, as opposed to stupid things that come out of mouths of posters such as yourself. By the way, the conclusion that you reached - Rockets being better off without him, I happen to agree with. This thread is a serious wonder about why people are content to boil it down to "playing w/ heart" or "playing w/o heart"... what the heck is that supposed to mean? But you've proved your idiocy by assuming things. Move on.
heart is when u are 20 pts down.. with 4 mins to go.. and u still think you can win the game.. and show that mentality on court.. it is as simple as that.. well.. what did our 21 million star do?
jVgOwnsYou, thanks, I appreciate that Billups/Madsen comparison. "heart" definition A - trying really hard, regardless of potential "heart" definition B - having potential and living up to it (bottom line : being able to produce wins) knote32, sorry, don't comprehend you there. What does this have to do with the Rockets winning a championship? Is it because really, they won because a magical secret ingredient called "heart" and not because they had the most dominant offensive and defensive center of the decade and the perfect combination of role-players? Consider me corrected and learned.
I think it's very easy to define what heart is. Case in point: Denver Nuggets last season. They had a 50-32 season, and were dogging it, were wildly inconsistent, and I know that some of hteir fans were mad at Karl (still are) and AI and Carmelo. That's called, playing without heart. Denver Nuggets this season. Once they got Chauncy Billups, boom, everything clicks and they are winning again. And they are playing with heart. I would define playing lacklusterly, strolling around, half-arsing around on defence as no heart. I would define making cuts, rotating sharply and taking it strong to the hole as having heart.
I think that has more to do with having a true point guard opposed to a scoring point guard who wants 30 shots a night. The team didn't jsut start playing with heart because they got a new point guard. It was geting a guy who could run the offense, and make his teammated better. Playing with heart has nothing to do with talent or how many points you score. It is playing hard regardless of the scoreline, playing thru injury/pain because your team needs you too.
Yesterday's undermanned team was a display of heart. - Yao got a double-double, but most of it in the 1st half. Fizzled in the end, but provided the rebounding and defense we need in the paint - Alston had to step up (bricked shots, but got 9 assists and drove to the lane when we needed penetration) - ScoLandry were being Scola a.k.a. Argentinian Assassin and Carl "GIVING IT ALL" Landry (34 points/16 rebounds combined) - Wafer proved last night he should be out there with some major minutes. I hate how Adelman brings in Head, who usually sucks ass, and you got Wafer who knows he doesn't get much playing time, but makes every minute count (and to think this walk-on is stepping up to be one of the top players on this team). Plus, this team took on a much improved and fully manned Hawks team (except for Marvin Williams) on their tough homecourt (15-2) that took the Celtics to 7 games in the playoffs last year. Adelman just needs to bench Hayes and Head, get Mutombo out there soon to relieve Yao so we don't have punks driving into that lane, and hopefully we can manage 3 more wins on this road trip with Battier and Artest resting their injuries (screw that MeMac quitter). Just my 2 cents....
