HEEEEEEELLLLLL NAAAAWWW! there is no comparison between duncan and hakeem. olajuwon could dominate games offensively and defensively; and in the playoffs he took it up an EXTRA level! when hakeem lost in the playoffs, you could easily surmise that it was NOT his fault. he did what he could. it was the scrubs around him that faltered (or karl malone bearhugging clyde, but that's another story altogether...) duncan has YET to show that ability. sorry.
I agree and I think Hakeem's support cast was slightly better than Duncan's. But it can be considered a push at best with Robinson at 12 pts, Smith 12 pts, Rose 10 pts, Daniels 9 pts, Smith 7.5 pts and Parker 9 pts. Very similar teams. I think the main difference was, SA didnt quite have the 3 point threat across the board that we did. The common factor is, the great big man. An argument can be made that the last 6 out of the last 9 titles have been one with a great post player. Actually, 9 if you consider Rodman on his defensive and rebounding skills. Thats a stretch though. Hopefully, Ming will be the read deal and EG will continue to improve. I know you disagree with me on this, but I dont see us winning a title with Mo at the 4. I think hes a good player, but I dont think you want him at the 4 while running the gauntlet through the West's great 4s. To me, hes a perfect off the bench big man. Similar to what Pollard does for Sac., although Taylor is better than him.
Hakeem championship 2 Duncan championship 1 Duncan MVP 1 Hakeem MVP 1 Duncan dominates offensively and averages 2.5 blocks during the regular season and 3 in the playoffs. Not too far off from Hakeem. Difference is, Duncan doesnt have Hakeem's hands (i.e. steals). Again, at this point in history, Duncan is not in Hakeem's class. But Duncan's first 5 years in the league compare very favorably to Hakeem's first 5 years. And Duncan is only 26. Shaq wont be around forever. Im guessing there are more MVPs and championships in his future. Hes on pace.
Smith and Daniels are gone. You need them all these days, MT, EG, TMo, KT, Rice. Duncan won't be as effective after Robinson leaves. That's why he'll bolt and sign elsewhere, probably Orlando. That would be good for us in the West. Duncan vs. Hakeem is not a direct comparison, they play different positions really.
Smith and Daniels were role players though. With Genoboli coming in and Parker coming into his sophmore season, I would think it would offset that loss. Not sure if thats true. In 98-99, Robinson missed 30 games or something like that and Duncan still poured in 22, 11 and 2.5 blocks. Before Hakeem had Thorpe at his side, he still put up great numbers and after Thorpe was traded, he didnt fall off at all. Im directly comparing them not by position, but by what they do for their teams and how the offense is built around them. Although they played different positions, they both played a post up game mixed in with mid-range jump shooting. They are both great rebounders and both great defensively. In that and how they dominate, they are similar. Again, Hakeem has an edge at this point. I think when you are a dominate big man, you dont necessarily need a Thorpe or Robinson at your side. Although it helps.
codell, oh gawd. are you a number cruncher type of dude? that's so boring. if you watched the games, there is absolute NO comparison of what hakeem did on defense (on blocks alone!) versus what duncan does on defense. before you start comparing the two, how about if tim plays his natural position - center - and stops blasting guys that are physically smaller than he is. that's another thing i find to be annoying about spurs' fans (not implying that you are one). they b**** about shaq only being good because he's bigger than everyone else, but they have a center that is playing power forward - and refuses to play center. he'd rather beat up on pansy power forwards who physically can't match up with him. dream, on the other hand, beat up on dudes bigger than him, the same size as him, and smaller than him. he altered more shots than duncan could ever dream of - pardon the pun. mvps? whatever, dude. i could care less about that damn popularity contest that allowed that p***y david robinson to steal what should have been olajuwon's mvp trophy. when they did matchup , the whole world saw who the real mvp was. championships? whatever. duncan's has a nice, fat * next to his. besides, the number of championships a player has is not the definitive sign of how great he is/was. is james worthy a better pf than karl malone, since he has more rings? how about kevin mchale, is he better than malone? as much as i despise "kung fu" karl, he is arguably the best pf in history. the game is more than #s. duncan is not close to olajuwon's status. sorry.
You would think they would go higher. Without a somewhat effective Robinson, Duncan is getting double teamed far more. Who comes in? Bateer? Willis? They are OK, but that puts a hell of a lot more on Duncan. Parker having one more year won't matter against Steve having one more and being healthy.
#1 For the last time, I said Duncan and Hakeem are comparable in what they do for their respective teams! I never said Duncan was better, even though I did say his numbers for his first 5 years are similar to Hakeems and if Duncan maitains his pace and wins another ring or two, hell be remembered as a great player just like Olajuwon is. And you are slighting Hakeem with the whole * thing. Everyone says that cause Jordan wasnt in the league when Hakeem won, there should be an *. Thats not fair to Hakeem and its not fair to Duncan. 29 other teams had the chance to win a championship when Duncan's team did, but they didnt. And you are right. Every year when someone wins an MVP, the argument can be made that someone else deserves it. So what? And for the record, for the role McHale played, in his prime, Id rather have him as my starting 4 than Malone if a championship is on the line. Worthy and Malone played different positions anyway. For the record, I hate SA. But Im a Duncan fan because hes one of the few good guys in this sport nowadays.
Well the same thing happened with Hakeem though. He used to get double and triple teamed and he still dominated. Remember Jim Peterson? Id take Willis over Peterson. Thats true, but i was comparing Parker and Francise. I was making the point that Parkers improvment would help offset the loss of Smith and Daniels, although it wont make up for it entirely.
worthy played the 3 and 4, especially when mychal thompson or green would punk out. as for tim, i have nothing against him (save for him not playing his natural position). as for the *, there is no comparison. 82 games. we're back at that magical number again. and, apparently, you have a problem comprehending that 82 games constitutes a full regular season. so there's really no point in talking about it.
I believe height, long arms and jumping ability are the most effective ways of containing Duncan. That is why Horry handles him pretty well. If that is the poison then EG and Ming fit the bill. I am not saying we can stop him which we may, I am saying we can contain him and the last time I checked he is not great shakes defensively. That is why Ming and EG is score on him further reducing any net advantage they have with Duncan. But all that is talk. We play them very soon.
If winning a championship over a 40 game season is so easy, then why didnt the Rockets or the other 28 some odd times win it? You cant discount it. They still had to compete and win. They were the best team that year. 82 games does indeed make up a full regular season. However, its what you do in the playoffs that count.
Duncan was elected to the NBA All Defensive team his first 3 years. Not sure about the last 2. Id say hes a pretty good defensive player. He stats and accolades pretty much back that up.
oh, and the reason horry is so successful against duncan is 1) he pushes him to away from his sweet spot (45 degree angle on the low block....perfect for a bank shot) and 2) he maintains position and keeps his long arms up.
Well look at the comets or the NFL. 16 game and 20 game seasons? The point Im making is, the Spurs had no inherent advantage over any other team. Plus even though the regular season was only 50 games, the played a full playoff schedule. Playoff games were not eliminated that year. There were 3 rounds plus the finals. Thats what matters most.
Championships arent won in the regular season friend, they are won in the playoffs. The 1995 Rockets are a perfect example.
A few observations: 1. Duncan,at this point,is not the equal of what Dream was,at his peak. There is a bigger disparity between them defensively than offensively. The other big difference is Dream had a "hop on my back boys,if we go down it's because I'm passed out and exhausted" attitude night in,night out. Duncan has taken awhile to show some of that(and still only sporadically) mostly due to his reluctance to step on DRob's toes and take over as franchise player. 2. I too am surprised at Duncan's insistence at playing the 4 and not the 5 although I believe he could dominate much the same way he does now because of the lack of quality 5's. Plus he plays down low more frequently now even as a 4 and he's frequently guarded by 5's also. IMO it'd be much easier for them to find a quality 4 and let Duncan slide to 5 when DRob retires but he doesn't want to at this point. 3. Regardless whether he's a 4 or 5,both his team and Dream's glory Rockets were built around the skills of a big man,players who knew their roles, and defense. Would these Spurs have beaten those Rockets? NO WAY!!! They can't get by the Lakers now(or Kings probably) but they still can't be dismissed as anything than what they've been lately...a reliable 55-60 win team. Because of the improvement of other Western teams,that could drop to 48-55. 4. As far as Duncan leaving next year,that would be a big shock now. I know as Rock fans we're supposed to hate Parker(though that's the announcers' faults,not his),but his emergence, the hoped for expectations from Ginobili,and next year's salary cap availability make it far more likely that he stays. The early targets for that free agency money are Kandiman(thanks to Sterling) and there's alot of talk about Kidd joining buddy Duncan. Although one wonders why you'd bring in a PG with Parker here. Anyhow that's my 2 cent's worth and some SA angles on what the Spurs are trying to do. I can only get my Rocket fixes here at Clutch City or through NBA TV packages so I begrudgingly take in alot of the Spurs force feeding that is pushed locally. I'm trying my best,though, to make sure my boy grows up a Rocket fan first and foremost! I'm not sure it's working though.
I am sure it would be much harder for Duncan to play against Floppy Divac, Osterfat, and Rasho Nesterobitch than Webber, Malone, and Garnett.
