Uh, when someone has made it their life's work to disparage Arabs and there is overwhelming evidence of that every time he opens his mouth I think it's wise to take him at face value. Why you would give any credibility to someone like this unless you are trying to feed your own prejudices is beyond me. To use your example, Michael Moore doesn't have much credibility in the mainstream. And what exactly is my agenda? Ok, understood. So there is a lot of lying in the Middle East while we westerners are truthful and honest. Atleast now you're being honest and not hiding your true feelings. Stop. Please don't insult my intelligence by repeatedly claiming that that wasn't a sarcastic remark. You even admitted in an earlier post and later on in this post that you have a Christian bias. If you would just admit it and come forth with your true feelings (like the quote above this one), we could get somewhere. I have no problem with denunciation or "poking holes." That group of outspoken atheists on this board who denounce Christianity openly admit their agenda - they hate Christianity and everything it stands for. They openly mock it. I think that its disrespectful but it's ok because they are entitled to their opinion and they don't deny their motives. I also have no problem with you poking holes into Islam. I am addressing your duplicity in these matters while claiming you just want answers but then taking backhanded swipes. You also then admitted you had a bias but later retracted it. Your story keeps changing. Look, go up a few paragraphs to where you spelled it out - that there is a lot of lying in the Middle East. I don't agree with your premise and arguments (the entire point of your other thread was to show that because the Quran sanctioned deception, it takes place, yet you claim Jews also engage in this deception and only coincidentally it is a formality in Islam) but I could respect you alot more if you would just spit out what you are trying to get across.
LOL. Look, no need to 'bold' the words "for years" - I know numerous people who have spent their entire lives in the Middle East and have also been there myself. So I'm not exactly going to be awed into a stupor by your anecdotal evidence. In regards to your Jewish friends: Please just stop. You are making a mockery of yourself. Nyquil didn't say you were an anti-semite. He said that you make accusations of anti-semitism to other people but can't take the heat when someone ousts your anti-Muslim bias. I don't know if you are an anti-semite nor do I think you are one. Please just stop embarrassing yourself by bringing up the Jewish friends. Not only did he not call you an anti-semite but that "friend/bigot" argument is laughable. Yawn, please stop whining. You have tossed around as many insults as anyone else. I have no idea what you said and am losing patience with this entire encounter.
<b>thacabbage Uh, when someone has made it their life's work to disparage Arabs and there is overwhelming evidence of that every time he opens his mouth I think it's wise to take him at face value. Why you would give any credibility to someone like this unless you are trying to feed your own prejudices is beyond me. To use your example, Michael Moore doesn't have much credibility in the mainstream.</b> Life's work to disparage Arabs? Michael Moore has come and gone. Isn't Emerson still around? <b>And what exactly is my agenda?</b> Let's start here: you have "no problem" with Atheists "denouncing Christianity" but you have all kinds of problems with me questioning aspects of Islam. Are you kidding? You don't see the huge gulf between those two? What's more you slander my inquiry by characterizing it is disingenuine and reeking of ill will. Did around; I think you'll find your own prejudice in there somewhere. <b>Ok, understood. So there is a lot of lying in the Middle East while we westerners are truthful and honest. Atleast now you're being honest and not hiding your true feelings.</b> If you weren't in such a rush to incriminate me, you'd realize that you're crediting/blaming me with my friend's report on challenges on working with Middle Easterners which is based on years working in the miiltary in the Middle East ( not as a tourist). On top of that you characerize it as anti-Semitic which is a gross exageration. You owe him an apology and me a retraction. <b>Stop. Please don't insult my intelligence by repeatedly claiming that that wasn't a sarcastic remark. You even admitted in an earlier post and later on in this post that you have a Christian bias. If you would just admit it and come forth with your true feelings (like the quote above this one), we could get somewhere.</b> Look, let's make this easy: CAN I COME ON YOUR SHOW, DR. PHIL? <B>I have no problem with denunciation or "poking holes." That group of outspoken atheists on this board who denounce Christianity openly admit their agenda - they hate Christianity and everything it stands for. They openly mock it. I think that its disrespectful but it's ok because they are entitled to their opinion and they don't deny their motives.</b> I have never seen any of these so-called atheists post a word to back up your assertion about them. <b>I also have no problem with you poking holes into Islam. I am addressing your duplicity in these matters while claiming you just want answers but then taking backhanded swipes. You also then admitted you had a bias but later retracted it. Your story keeps changing.</B> The only story that keeps changing is your version of my motives versus my version of my motives. <b>Look, go up a few paragraphs to where you spelled it out - that there is a lot of lying in the Middle East. I don't agree with your premise and arguments (the entire point of your other thread was to show that because the Quran sanctioned deception, it takes place, yet you claim Jews also engage in this deception and only coincidentally it is a formality in Islam) but I could respect you alot more if you would just spit out what you are trying to get across.</b> I'm going to try this one more time: I was starting a discussion based on a discussion I heard on the radio about this particular problem. It's a real problem. Remember the AQ manuals they found which instructed warriiors who were captured to lie about their treatment? Do you think the Americans have such a lesson for their own soldiers? Huh, do you? You should check your skepticism and stop playing amateur psychologist and let the conversation flow.
<b>thacabbage LOL. Look, no need to 'bold' the words "for years" - I know numerous people who have spent their entire lives in the Middle East and have also been there myself. So I'm not exactly going to be awed into a stupor by your anecdotal evidence.</b> This man's living and working experience was military. <b>In regards to your Jewish friends: Please just stop. You are making a mockery of yourself. Nyquil didn't say you were an anti-semite. He said that you make accusations of anti-semitism to other people but can't take the heat when someone ousts your anti-Muslim bias. I don't know if you are an anti-semite nor do I think you are one. Please just stop embarrassing yourself by bringing up the Jewish friends. Not only did he not call you an anti-semite but that "friend/bigot" argument is laughable.</b> What anti-semitic accusations did I make about anybody? This is just plain crazy. I'll have to go back and see just what nyquil said. Here's what he wrote: Reads like an accusation to me. <b>Yawn, please stop whining. You have tossed around as many insults as anyone else.</b> Have not. How many times in just this thread have you called me an idiot? Twice at least I believe...
How do you guys fit these books onto those little spoons? What happens if you don't have a clean needle? There are so many things regarding religion that I'll never understand. Also, which was the first organized religion to recognize big dinosaurs?
I'm not sure how you think Michael Moore has come and gone if you think someone with as little credibility as Emerson is "still around." Sigh, I guess basic reason won't work with you. How many times do I have to spell it out? My problem isn't with you questioning aspects of Islam because that's not what you are doing. You are taking backhanded swipes at the religion in an attempt to denigrate it and somehow prove its inferiority to Christianity. The proof is in almost every one of your own posts. I wouldn't mind if you did that if you would just stop claiming that your intentions are genuine. The atheists on this board do not deny they have a problem with Christianity. They don't "poke and hide" like you do. Uhhhh, haven't you been vouching for your friend this whole time? Like I said, I know a great deal of people who have spent their lives in the Middle East ("not as a tourist"). Don't you think the opinion of people actually ingrained in the culture might be a little bit more informative than from someone who has a bias from working in the United States military? What?! When did I ever characterize your friend as anti-Semitic??! You really have a problem with making things up. ... I have yet to see them hide from their own assertions as repeatedly as you do. They are atleast upfront in regards to their beliefs. You are not. You really want to go through this again, don't you? You are telling me that it's wrong to lie during war? That we Americans are so noble? Our own Christian president lied to his own people about war. Do we really have to revisit this? Furthermore, when numerous people proved to you that that site you found your article from was an anti-Islam propoganda website, you stubbornly refused to listen and stuck to your claims that it was legit even though you admittedly had no understanding of the topic. How does that work? You were blindly defending the contents of an article from a proven propaganda website - that right there epitomizes feeding your own prejudice. If you wouldn't stop whining every other paragraph and asking everyone to stop attacking you, maybe the conversation would flow.
Your reading comprehension skills really are poorer than I thought. He didnt accuse YOU of being an anti-semite. He accused you of accusing others of anti-semitism. Whether or not you have done that in the past, I don't know, that's not the point. The point is that he didn't call you an anti-semite. Uhh, no, I haven't called you an idiot even once in this thread though I am surprised at how I have refrained from doing such. Please, stop whining.
<b>thacabbage Sigh, I guess basic reason won't work with you. How many times do I have to spell it out? My problem isn't with you questioning aspects of Islam because that's not what you are doing.</b> What makes you think that you have the prerogative to assign motive? <b>You are taking backhanded swipes at the religion in an attempt to denigrate it and somehow prove its inferiority to Christianity. The proof is in almost every one of your own posts. I wouldn't mind if you did that if you would just stop claiming that your intentions are genuine. The atheists on this board do not deny they have a problem with Christianity. They don't "poke and hide" like you do.</b> So this whole diatribe of yours is based on the "At least Christians have the New Testament" comment? <b>Uhhhh, haven't you been vouching for your friend this whole time? </b> I did report what he told me and I've defended his credibility from smears. He sees a problem, so I am interested. <b>Like I said, I know a great deal of people who have spent their lives in the Middle East ("not as a tourist"). Don't you think the opinion of people actually ingrained in the culture might be a little bit more informative than from someone who has a bias from working in the United States military?</b> I'm intrested in what the extremists are thinking and doing, so I'll go with the military guy for a practical guide. <b>I have yet to see them hide from their own assertions as repeatedly as you do. They are atleast upfront in regards to their beliefs. You are not.</b> If I were hiding, would I engage in this absurd exchange with you? Sorry but you do not get to explain me. You do not know me. You have no met me. You have a hostile attitude towards me. In sum, you are a bully. <b>You really want to go through this again, don't you? You are telling me that it's wrong to lie during war? That we Americans are so noble? Our own Christian president lied to his own people about war. Do we really have to revisit this? Furthermore, when numerous people proved to you that that site you found your article from was an anti-Islam propoganda website, you stubbornly refused to listen and stuck to your claims that it was legit even though you admittedly had no understanding of the topic. How does that work? You were blindly defending the contents of an article from a proven propaganda website - that right there epitomizes feeding your own prejudice.</b> Was the principle that was described also a farce? How about the AQ manual? Was the made-up too? Does the US train her soldiers in these kinds of tactics? Please don't ignore the salient question again... <b>If you wouldn't stop whining every other paragraph and asking everyone to stop attacking you, maybe the conversation would flow.</b> Wake up! It's only you I'm complaining about here.
<b>thacabbage Your reading comprehension skills really are poorer than I thought. He didnt accuse YOU of being an anti-semite. He accused you of accusing others of anti-semitism. Whether or not you have done that in the past, I don't know, that's not the point. The point is that he didn't call you an anti-semite.</b> "This is someone" throwing out accusations of anti-semitism. That is an accusation of me not someone else. Why are you defending him? <b>Uhh, no, I haven't called you an idiot even once in this thread though I am surprised at how I have refrained from doing such. Please, stop whining.</b> I apologize for falsely accusing you. It was SamFisher not you. I'll stop "whining" when you adopt a civil tone and stop derailing these kinds of threads with these personal attacks. I'm not sure why you feel so innocent; you regularly weave insults into your comments. There are two just above...
Is he accusing you of anti-semitism? OR Is he accusing you of throwing accusations of anti-semitism? hint: those two are different
what you mean of course? just admit you misunderstood his post and actually thought he was accusing of anti-semitism that's why you tried to defend yourself by saying you have jewish friends..
I don't need to assign motive when you have demonstrated it in every one of your posts. It's based on all of your comments. (ie: "and this is the religion of peace we have been hearing about?") etc. You just right now tried to distance yourself from him by saying im "crediting/blaming" you with his report. So which is it? Okay. Please, stop whining. If you were upfront about your thoughts and beliefs like you just demonstrated in the quote above this one, we could have productive discourse. The United States regards herself as the greatest bastion of democracy and freedom. Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organization. Why would you hold the two to the same standards? You are making a big deal out of the principle of lying during war and implying that it is a trait inherent of only Al-Qaeda and Muslims and that this stems from the Quran. That doesn't make sense. Everyone lies during war. War itself is deception. Correct me if I'm wrong but you earlier said "Your crowd just can't rise above petty name-calling, can it?" You are 'giddyup', are you not? Huh? He never said you are an anti-semite. He said you call others anti-semites. Whether or not you do, I don't know. My point was that you need not get defensive and cite your Jewish friends because he didn't call you an anti-semite. So you can dish it out but you can't take it?
Here's the full post: I did not misunderstand his post. I understood it perfectly. Why are you bending over backwards to try and find an out for him? I don't think he said it well. It is poorly written, but I came nowhere close to accusing anybody of being anti-Semitic so it is left being targeted at me. Perhaps the sleeping man should come and try to explain himself.
<b>thacabbage I don't need to assign motive when you have demonstrated it in every one of your posts.</b> This is a rhetorical device known as hyperbole. It is often used when there is an insubstantial argument. <b>It's based on all of your comments. (ie: "and this is the religion of peace we have been hearing about?") etc.</b> All my comments? See "hyperbole." <b>You just right now tried to distance yourself from him by saying im "crediting/blaming" you with his report. So which is it?</b> That is exactly what happened. You tried to make Emerson (and Laura Ingraham and the unnamed general by insinuation) out to be agents of some hysterical agenda. I pointed out an affirming conversation I had with a man with years of practical experience who would know the mindset and the practices of the enemy in question. Of course I agree with him, but that doesn't change the fact that his opinion stands alone as further evidence of this problem-- a problem which you think is not distinctive of this enemy. <b>Please, stop whining. If you were upfront about your thoughts and beliefs like you just demonstrated in the quote above this one, we could have productive discourse.</b> Stop bullying. <b>The United States regards herself as the greatest bastion of democracy and freedom. Al-Qaeda is a terrorist organization. Why would you hold the two to the same standards? You are making a big deal out of the principle of lying during war and implying that it is a trait inherent of only Al-Qaeda and Muslims and that this stems from the Quran. That doesn't make sense. Everyone lies during war. War itself is deception.</b> Dodging the question still... I guess you don't like the answer that you will have to offer up. <b>Correct me if I'm wrong but you earlier said "Your crowd just can't rise above petty name-calling, can it?" You are 'giddyup', are you not?</b> (Baseless insult which says nothing substantive) <b>Huh? He never said you are an anti-semite. He said you call others anti-semites. Whether or not you do, I don't know. My point was that you need not get defensive and cite your Jewish friends because he didn't call you an anti-semite.</b> Admittedly his communication was poorly written but since I came nowhere close to calling anyone an anti-Semite, I concluded that this must be targeted at me-- as the rest of the "contribution" is a criticism of me. <b>So you can dish it out but you can't take it?</b> Dish out what? It is rare for me to stoop to name-calling. If I do it is usually a reaction to the same from others. You continuously weave veiled insults into your posts; I don't think you can say the same of mine. Don't be so in love with your "cleverness." And you accuse me of being insincere?
Because this has degenerated into an embarrassing pissing match, I have removed all of the BS. How did I dodge the question? You asked if the United States trained her soldiers to use this tactic. I gave you your answer. Why do you hold the United States to the same standards as a terrorist organization? The concept described from the reigious text was lying during war. It was NOT claiming torture once released. So somehow you deduced that because Al-Qaeda practices this action, it should be an indictment of Islam. The concept was lying during war which is practiced on a widespread level. So what's your point?
<b>thacabbage Because this has degenerated into an embarrassing pissing match, I have removed all of the BS.</b> My hero. If you would have an email link, we could have handled this privately, you attack dog! <b>How did I dodge the question? You asked if the United States trained her soldiers to use this tactic. I gave you your answer. Why do you hold the United States to the same standards as a terrorist organization? The concept described from the reigious text was lying during war. It was NOT claiming torture once released. So somehow you deduced that because Al-Qaeda practices this action, it should be an indictment of Islam. The concept was lying during war which is practiced on a widespread level. So what's your point?</b> I don't hold the US to those standards; where do you get that? I pointed up that AQ had a written policy which smacks of cowardice and deception. BTW, the claims of torture and other kinds of abuse are ongoing without having been released for the most part. I deduced nothing. These were two INDEPENDENTLY discovered aspects which were pointed out after the original question of the relationship of violence to Islam was brought up. Whether you like it or not that question is out there and has been for awhile. Both aspects point to a legitimate question which deserves asking and answering. Apparently you already know the answer and nobody needs to discuss it and it will highly offend you if they do. Nothing can be done about that by anyone but you. BTW, the other question I asked which never got answered: hasn't this question about the violent roots of Islam been featured on national news magazines-- not to mention others kinds of news outlets? I believe I've read and watched some of them over the last few years. Did you write those editors and producers to tell them not to suppose such a thing? Did you defame them, psychoanalyze them and question their ethics, too?
Didn't you just now ask me "Does the US train her soldiers in these kinds of tactics?" They are a terrorist organization... What did you expect? Ethics? What? If I recall, in the previous thread you claimed that you heard Emerson on the radio discussing the principle of lying in Islam and then also cited evidence from your friend in the military and Al-Qaeda training manuals that taught captured terrorists to claim they were tortured. You deduced nothing?? Your ENTIRE POINT was to show how questions need to be raised about Islam because it sanctions such actions and that is the cause of what is taking place today. You're really making no sense right now. If you weren't trying to make that connection then you were just stating the obvious! We know Al-Qaeda does this - they are a terrorist organization, what did you expect?! Furthermore, the entire principle of "taqqiyah" (hiding one's religion) which you brought up is a shi'ite principle, not a sunni principle. That would not apply to Al-Qaeda, as you claimed. Furthermore, how are you holding the religious text accountable if something is not explicitly stated and is misused? Like I said earlier, any religion can be misused for personal/political gain. How is Islam any different? What is your point? I questioned your ethics because of the sarcastic manner in which you approached the topic. I have no problem with these questions being raised. Of course Islam had violent roots. It originated in tribal Arabia where the sword was the rule of law. If you didn't fight, you would be annihiliated. What's your point, again? Or do you not consider any historical context?
