In Vatican II there is a document entitled Lumen Gentium. It speaks of Baptism by Desire, i.e. Salvation outside the church. One could make the case that Ghandi, in his struggle for the truth, for love, was struggling for Christ, even if he didn't put it in those words. The church likes to maintain the fullness of the faith, i.e. there are practices outside of the church that can lead to salvation, but the fullness of what it is Christ taught is in the church he established. A deathbed conversion for Hitler would be awesome. It's just a little harder to atone when for all the wrong he did, the whole hardness of heart thing. A heart as hardend as that would be a lot harder to unharden then say, one who hadn't done as many wrongs as he. Ultimately though, salvation is in God's hands... Giddy, I can find some things for you concerning the whole Pope thing if you're interested. On a sidenote, this is my first post since Ash Wednesday and man it feels wierd (I gave up non-essential websurfing for Lent). Good to see your guys' names again.
the key here is that both the monster and the angel are HUMAN, with all their frailties and sinful nature. and christ came to save us all. all of us are god's children. this inclusiveness and low threshold for salvation are partly what makes christianity/catholicism such a popular religion.
catholic (little c): 1. Of broad or liberal scope; comprehensive: “The 100-odd pages of formulas and constants are surely the most catholic to be found” (Scientific American). 2. Including or concerning all humankind; universal: “what was of catholic rather than national interest” (J.A. Froude).
If you're gonna be a catholic, you might as well worship the Greek gods. Catholicism encourages you to pray to dead people for favors and miracles. You cannot talk to Jesus directly, rather you need a messenger boy who can skip the line of daily prayers that God hears and get your message to him faster. Catholicism has taken every aspect of Christ's message and mixed it with pagan religions. When Christ was on earth, it was He and 12 apostles NOT He and a head apostle, then 2 sub-head apostles, then 9 junior apostles. If you become a catholic, you have to accept that the Pope is more holy than you and must show reverence to him even though the bible teaches us that everyone is equal. Christ railed against the sort of religious beauracracy that the Catholic religion shares with the Jewish beauracracy that existsed during his stay on Earth.
Wonderful insight. Being Catholic would mean having to deal with this kind of thing all the time, and then wondering how to correct someone when they are wrong or misrepresent Catholic doctrine., or if you should simply just let it go... Anyway, we pray with saints, not to saints, Christ establishes the primacy of Peter, all the Bishops have the same powers that the Pope has (namely to turn the communion host into the body and blood of Christ, but there are many other things) ...let's see, oh yeah I'd like to see the doctrine that says all Catholics must bow down and face Rome and say Pope, you are more holier than I, way to go dude!
lets see, you make nice litle statues of Jesus when the bible says not to make images of Him. If bishops are equal to the pope why does the Church promote the pope as the supreme leader of the chuch and sole representative of God on earth? Why does it allow for people to touch him and kiss him as if he held the same powers as God? Saints are dead people, they're no more special to God than you or me, why should you have to invoke some dead guy's name to get a message to God when the only name you have to use is Christ. I dont recall him saying anywhere in the bible that there were other mediators besides him. And lets not get into the statues of "saints" that you guys make and bow to. I could go on about how some of the saintships that the church so adores were purchased by political types back a few centuries back. So might wanna do a little research first and make sure the saint you hooking up with wasnt actually just some rich dude who decided to give the church an extra donation before he died
Hey twhy77, Alien B-Bob appreciates this very much. Seriously, thanks. I gave up something (beer) for lent for the first time in my life. I'm not Catholic, but I figured it would be kind of cool, and it was. Especially yesterday.
Catholics believe you can ask anyone to pray with you, dead or alive. Why does group prayer exist at all? BTW, the church that your are b****ing about who did this or that "way back when" is not the same one it is today. Thank "God" for that. We all know it still isn't perfect. Please tell me yours is. Also, I don't think "God" outlawed art. you are missing the point. An inferiority complex is a hard thing to deal with, isn't it.
You must be one of those damned Papists! Bottom line, this is what the Catholic Church believes, it seems reasonable, is believed by a billion people on Earth, and either you agree with it, or you don't! But please stop spreading so much mis-information...and remember, Jesus loves you! Idols- http://www.catholic.com/library/Do_Catholics_Worship_Statues.asp Primacy of Peter and the Papacy- http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12260a.htm Saints, (by the way I've never made a statue of a saint, nor do I think I've bowed to one, and even if I did when did bowing constitute worship, Japanese people bow to each other, I think you are confusing respect with worship), you might also want to look in Romans (iirc) where Paul speaks about co-working, and co-mediating through Christ: http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02364b.htm Anyways, I hope this doesn't describe you (does anyone know if this website is a joke?)... http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0699/idols.html
yes, landover baptist is a sarcastic site that pokes fun of the plain goofiness of believers i dunno what is more funny, the article or that you weren't sure if it was real or not
Label me gullible. I should have known after realultimatepower.net made its way into my favorites list...
The church might be different today but the fact remains that some of your so called sainthoods were bought pure and simple. Maybe the church should release a Vatican edict on that too. As for the praying with the saints thing, whats the difference between that and Buddhism worship of the dead? Nothing wrong with art, but when people start revering statues... I'm not really sure what you mean by the inferiority complex, but if you think it's funny and insightful, then the more power to you
I think I'll pass on being told that another man is more holy than me. Jesus didn't like this kind of thinking when the "good people" would not associate with the tax collectors or whores. You might not have done any of those things with the saints thing, but plenty of your church hierarchy have, and since their word is law, isn't their beliefs yours as well? respect is one thing, kneeling down is worship.
How do Buddhists worship the dead? Man, you are misinformed about many a religion. BTW, it is actually "Thou Shall Not Worship Any False Billy Idols".
Are you serisouly questioning if Buddhists worship the dead? Do you have any understanding of Buddhism?
I've never really put someone on the ignore list, but since I'm trying to get into fewer arguments these days, here we go hotballa... I already posted an answer to what you will probably counter with, i.e. you won't even defend your faith! so...if you don't agree with Catholocism...that's ok...way to go... just stop spreading the hate man....
