Basically what you are saying is if Kevin Martin just wanted it more he could have been one of the 50 or so best players ever. Dude could score like none other. All he had to do was try on d right? Or maybe Korver or any of those ELITE shooters types, if they just tried harder and practiced more to round out their games they could have been some of the all time greats? Or in real life we can clearly see that the few guys you listed are listed for a reason. Ask yourself this. Is James Harden as good as Hakeem and Jordan and Magic? If your answer is yes, you are wrong but I guess it would make your b****ing justified. If your answer is no then at some point you can’t expect the same results as those guys. Players have limitations. Harden is an all time great, but he isn’t going to reach the Hakeem/Jordan tier of greatness. That’s ok, pretty ****ing rare.
Magic didn't play both ends of the court, and he also didn't have the usage that Harden has. Kobe Bryant went from a good defender to below average after his offensive usage went up. Larry Bird was a poor defender overall. LeBron James hasn't been a good defender in years. Hakeem Olajuwon never had to carry the offensive usage load that Harden does, and Hakeem is likely the best defensive player in NBA history. Michael Jordan is the best player ever, and even he regularly did not cover the other teams best player, allowing Pippen to do so, all so Jordan could carry the offensive load. If you look through NBA history, you can count on one hand the number of players that have the usage level Harden has, and also were good defenders. As it is, Harden isn't a bad defender. Right now James Harden has the 5th highest USAGE rate in NBA history. The players ahead of him all time for a single season are: Westbrook (didn't defend), Bryant (didn't defend), Iverson (didn't defend) and Michael Jordan at 24 years old. Jordan did defend that season, but he is the greatest player in NBA history and was 24 years old. So really, you are only asking him to do what Michael Jordan did in his absolute peak.
Remember that the thread title is "can Harden get better than this?" Don't be so surprised when people make suggestions. lol I think most of the people here saying Harden doesn't have to play defense would also say he's in the Kobe / Lebron conversation. But Harden has the tools to play defense and we've seen him do it. You can't expect Kevin Martin or Lou Williams to stop a piece of tissue paper.
He can get leaner and be better conditioned. It would move him from a ceiling of being a top 20-30 player of all time to top 10-15 player of all time .
What I’m saying is, players have a ceiling and limitations and after a while it’s pretty clear what they are and so my answer in general to the question the op asked is no. I think if you look at the last 5 years you can pull out 3 seasons that were all timers and likely going to be the 3 best seasons he’s ever going to have. Might have some around that good, but better? Not likely And to expect all the good he is giving and at the same time turn it over less and defend more than I don’t think the Lebron vs MJ argument would exist. It would be Harden vs MJ. If Harden was gifted Lebrons body and still played the way he does now I would understand the disappointment.
I don't think his conditioning is all that bad. He consistently plays 35+ minutes a game. A lot of it is the type of usage the Rockets make him take on. My main gripe with Harden is his decision making late in games. He pretty much stops attacking the rim, and is relegated to nothing but step back 3's. It's a shot he can make, but it limits what we can do. Others are rarely involved down the stretch, though not having Chris Paul certainly hurts.
i think he could get even more efficient if he had another star next to him to get the attention of the defense. think lebron and kyrie
I agree, but I think most of that is because he doesn't give consistent effort on D. He is in rarefied company offensively. Everything else seems like you guys are making excuses. DD
I think so.. if he stops turning the ball over so much and plays decent defense... he can be even better.... and stop ball hogging at times where he can break the defense down and create better shots.
7. Sprinkle in a backdoor cut every once in a while. Sometimes it's so difficult for Harden to even get the ball on the perimeter because his defender overplays the pass so hard. Running a play to get him moving off the ball just a couple of times early in the game could go a long way in keeping his defender honest and reducing the effort it takes to get the offense initiated throughout the game.
Surely, there are places he can improve. Everyone's already pointed them out. And I certainly agree with a lot of them. I just have to step back, though, and marvel at the godlike durability of this guy. He has been singlehandedly carrying the entire team pretty much since he got here. Most of the players he's had around him have been below average or old and washed out and unable to take any significant load off him. Nobody in their right mind would think that you could take Harden off the team, and the team would still be anything at all. Maybe an occasional 8th seed at best. I'm still reminded of the '14-'15 season where he came runner up to Curry for MVP. (Don't forget that the players voted for Harden that year.) Every single damn player on the team was injured except Harden. Our shiny new expensive center was basically old, broken, and worthless. Harden just put the yoke on and dragged the team to a number 2 seed in the West. It was incredible. Couldn't epitomize the words "most valuable player" any better if those words meant anything anymore. And he's just been getting better since then, incredibly. Given the load he's carrying, and the brutal game he plays where he gets murdered on every drive, I'm amazed he doesn't just drop dead one day. Nope. Somehow, he manages to keep playing with incredibly low downtime for injuries. Sure, he can get better, but, man, only Harden could do this much AND still have any life left to even potentially get better.
Agreed other than Kobe. I like Harden’s game better than Kobe’s but it’s hard to argue against his success. If Harden wins 2 ships and another MVP, it will be a legitimate argument, but as of now, Im not so comfortable putting Harden ahead of Kobe..
Kobe and Bron improved their game with a low post game. Harden can work on that. Harden still turns over a lot. Mid range also can improve. I also think Harden can be better at involving his team mates more like how bron does. Harden still has to prove come playoff time that he can take over and win. There's always ways to improve.
He did against the Celtics. Looked really good to me. Gotta judge the man for his overall, not his lowlights. If you do judge him that way, you're just another Twitter style fan out there hating without checking out the full story.
I think Harden is capable of scoring 35 ppg. So he can improve still in my mind but he's a helluva player right now as is.
