Can Green + Sengun be our version of Fox + Sabonis?

Honest question:

Is a Fox/ Sabonis combination one that other teams ought to attempt to emulate?

I'd rather wait and see if they can win 50 games before getting too excited.

 

Appreciate the clarity, Fox was talented coming in and it took them winning and him making All star game though I think it was replacement selection

When you said right now in your earlier reply I took it as the current series they are in, he been balling tough past couple years and finally showcasing it on the hyped up postseason stage

He may be the best young clutch shooter in the game, but I would say KD and few others are based on longevity

Didn't Sabonis make all star team? They both carried that squad to that seed, but if you want to give Fox larger portion of 60/40 I ain't mad atcha

 

Being an All Star reverse already is top 25 in league. Inside 20 isnt much of a stretch

 

Several ones. Random order.
Harden and Dwight - Harden and CP3 - Harden and Embiid
CP3 and West - CP and Blake - CP and Shai - CP and Booker
Lebron and Wade - Lebron and Kyrie . Lebron and AD
Shaq and Kobe - Kobe and Gasol (Yao and Tracy/SF3) Vince and Mac, Vince and Kidd
MJ and Scottie - Hakeem and Glide - Payton and Kemp - Barkley and Kevin Johnson
Penny and Shaq
Duncan and Tony
Dirk and Nash - Nash and Stat - Dirk and Kidd
Magic and Kareem
Stockton and Malone
DWill and Boozer
Kawhi and Lowry - Kawhi and Duncan - Kawhi and PG13
Durant and WB - Durant and Curry - Durant and Kyrie/Harden - Durant and Booker
Curry and Klay
Giannis and Jru
Tatum and Jaylen Brown
Luka + any guy- Jokic and Murray- Fox and Sabonis - Trae and Dejounte - Butler + anyone, Morant and Bane
KAT and Butler - KAT and Edwards (Mitchell and Garland, Randle - Brunson)

 

Foxs early "struggles" were shooting woes and really bad shot selection. Green is actually is similar in a way because Fox also had the habit of trying to beat every with pure speed at the rim and just throwing up really bad layups.

Green needs to figure out how to stop rather than going at 100 percent speed. That is what made Fox a lot better

 

I guess I'll start with the things I agree with. Sengun does have a similar game to Sabonis and he would definitely flourish more in an offense that is built around his post scoring and playmaking. And, the Rockets definitely need to address shooting. But, as coach Udoka mentioned, a big part of this is shot selection, which I expect to improve this year.

Now for what I disagree with. Jalen and Fox are just not alike. Fox is fairly prototypical for a modern PG. He has a an probing, playmaking mindset on every play. Jalen is a fairly prototypical SG he's looking for space to get his shot off in each of the 3 phases. And, Jalen is very explosive but his end to end speed is not like Fox at all and he will just never have PG level court vision even as his passing ability improves.

Sengun and Sabonis do not have similar physical tools. Sabonis is built like a UFC fighter, Sengun is built like the guy eating wings on the couch watching the fight. You hope that Sengun gets into the kind of shape Sabonis was in as a rookie in the next couple years. He's just significantly stronger.

Getting to 7 games in the first round as the 3 seed is not a positive. They SHOULD win as the higher seed all year.

Also, the Kings DO NOT have a good team defense. They were terrible, ranked 25th in defensive rating for the year. Part of the problem is that Sabonis is just not good defensively. He contributes on that end by rebounding but he's no rim protector. That's why a team with such a historically great offense isn't considered true title contenders.

While Sengun is built more like a slimmer Jokic, I think because of that he will rely more on skill and positioning than physicality. I think he could be better defensively than Sabonis.

So, I don't think the rockets can or should attempt to replicate the Kings' game.

I think you'll see something like a Heat approach where there are more defensive minded players on the team and plays are made from the post but that's not the only way plays are made. Bam is not as offensively gifted so the ratio won't be exact but I think it will be a blend instead of a steady diet.

 

If they can both develop a consistent shot, yes.

 

Exactly - if you're paying attention to the series, Sabonis is a clear weak spot that the Warriors are exploiting again and again.

He was lousy last night, fouling out halfway through the 4th. This was great for Sacto bc Trey Lyles - who has been better - came in and they extended their lead.

The previous game - Draymond Green, in the year of our lord 2023, managed to put up 20+ points scoring inside for the first time this decade. Also Kevon Looney ripped down 20+ rebounds..

The Warriors don't really have a dominant inside scorer but it's pretty clear they can get whatever they want underneath whenever bc Sacto has zero rim protection. The Lakers have to love that.

Now on some level - who cares, the Rockets are terrible, it doesn't matter that Sengun will get crushed in the playoffs bc they are so, so far frim the playoffs. But, i do think it's wacky to craft msjor personnel moves around the idea that you're locked in to having the absolute worst defensive big man in the league at the most important position for the rest of the decade.

 

They won 48.

Jokic/Murray won 53 this season, good enough?

 

They are already close. Just look at the month of January when for whatever reason they decided to use Alpi in that role . Then the staff was like you know what, our highest offensive rating was nice but no thank you. We'll go back to ' 5 out'.

 

It was like...they saw how awesome we COULD be if we committed to it, but then they were like...nah...we have to go back to the tank.

 

It was just a big no for Silas. Silas if one of the weirdest people I have seen in professional sports and thank god we won't know more about him.

 

Heh.

 

I'm just wondering how much of that was also ownership/Stone demanding that we go through with the tank, and that we "hide" Sengun.

 

Oh for sure, Sengun would have averaged 30/20/20 and Jalen would have averaged 50/10 with a 70% TS% and led the Rockets to an 80 win season if not for the man holding them down.

That's not delusional at all.

 

I do think sabonis's offensive/defensive combination is just not enough to be a contender. So I understand the reservations there. But Sengun is just way better on offense and more jokic like with his passing than Sabonis and more skilled in the post. It is really what kings could do with Sabonis's shortcomings that impressed me rather than how good of a model Sabonis is.

To answer your question, I don't think teams should try to attempt to emulate but the rockets just happen to have the only player in the league to have a serious consideration into it. With Sengun getting stronger and just a bit better on D, the rockets' ceiling will already be above the current Kings and with Sengun and the rest of the core being so young, it is worth to test the potential there.

 

It is impossible to know but after 2.5 years with Silas, and seeing his performance, I don't think ownership/Stone thought they needed to talk anything with Silas about tanking. Not firing Silas was already an obvious tanking move.

Silas was already 'allergic' to that kind of basketball, or any type of basketball other than the one he constantly tried to run.

 

I wish people would stop comparing Sengun to Sabonis.

Sabonis can move well.....lean, mean fighting machine that can play defense and run the court.
Stick with comparing Sengun to Jokic. Two cement wearing boots players.

Here they are next to one another.

 

The month of January in which the Rockets were.. 2-12 and went 3 weeks without a win?

The other months were just as bad, except for the last few tanky week. There's no real good data points to support anything other than that no matter what the Rockets tried with whoever was there - the results were not great. Can't really draw too many conclusions other than that