Can Democrats Be Christian?

1. motivation is important, i think.

2. I don't totally disagree...but that's not the entire scope of it. Jesus speaks very frankly about sin. He speaks very frankly about the "wages of sin." He talks more of hell than he does of heaven. He didn't say, "hey...those ten commandments...yeah, all of those are worthless now. do as you please." he actually took them up a notch, by making the legalistic wranglings around them inapplicable. but ultimately, he paid the price for it.

 

What is most interesting is that, relative to his time, Jesus Christ was an extreme 'liberal'...preaching women's rights, breakdowns of class orientation, ect. And by far the early Christians leaned to the 'left', being comprised om mostly lower class labourers, women, and slaves.


Christianity didn't become assosciated with conservatism until it became intermingled with the power structure, and as such took on it's own political dimensions. Since then, as with all groups in power positions it became more interested in maintaining the status quo, thus ensuring their continuing power base. Within the Christian structure there were movements away from conservatism, especially during the Reformation, etc. but overall the oddity about Christianity is that it went from being a revolutionary, liberalized religion embraced by the less fortunate to being a tool and realm of those in control, generally, and in particualr in the 19th and 20the centuries being most notably linked to conservative and at times reactionary political idelogies within established structures.

On the other hand, like Democracy, it's actually a lot more practiced in places where it is dangerous or illegal than in places where it is openly allowed, flourishing in it's original role as underground hope of the downtrodden or repressed.

 

I see the concept of sin as being a separation from goodness. It is a darkness, or ignorance. It is not some sort of black mark or certain action. If you say "Thou Shall not Kill", the important thing is why. Without the understanding, the commandment is pointless, maybe even oppressive.

Jesus talked of the Kingdom of God as being right here, right now. Hell is here right now too. Both can be nowhere else.

 

"For we have all sinned and fall short of the Glory of God"

a Liberal can certainly be a Christian, everyone does things nearly every day that contradicts what the Bible teaches, it is not in rebellion to the religion but simple human nature. Who am I to say you cannot be in my religion?

"Judge not lest ye be judged"

Jesus was hung on the cross with two men, two thieves I believe. One said to him "If you are the Christ, why not call your angels and save yourself and us" The other thief said "Leave him alone, he hasn't done anything to deserve this" Jesus said to that second thief "Today you shall be with me in paradise"

I cannot deny anyone the right to accept Jesus as their savior, if I wished some people were not Christians, by the faith I believe in, that would be as good as me wishing eternal damnation on them. No one is perfect, not Liberals, not Conservatives.

 

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."

To me, life eternal, is not an everlasting life in heaven which occurs after death. Life eternal means to transcend life and death, to stand beyond time. You don't need to die in order to enter the kingdom of heaven. In fact, you have to be truly alive.

 

Funky.

I like.

 

Well, some of us couldn't be judges in Florida...
______________

Not Taken on Faith

Julie Kay
Miami Daily Business Review
01-13-2004


"Will you be able to balance your duties as a single mother of twins with your duties as a Broward judge?"

That was the question Broward County Assistant Public Defender Jayme Cassidy says she was asked by a member of the 15th Judicial Circuit Judicial Nomination Commission during her two judicial screening interviews in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

Cassidy says the first time she was asked the question by JNC member O'Neal Dozier, pastor of the fundamentalist Worldwide Christian Center in Pompano Beach, she was so surprised that she could barely answer. The second time, she says, she was livid and told the panel that the question was inappropriate.

"I have never allowed being a single mother to interfere with my job," Cassidy told the Miami Daily Business Review. "I'm not a single parent by choice. It's not my fault."

Cassidy is one of a number of Broward judicial candidates who have complaints about the appropriateness of questions they were asked in recent months by Dozier and other members of the Broward Circuit Court JNC during interviews for bench vacancies. Most of the criticism is directed at Dozier, who, like all JNC members, was appointed by Gov. Jeb Bush. But Coral Springs, Fla., attorney Walter Blake also came in for criticism.

JNC member Richard Zaden, a Wilton Manors, Fla., lawyer, defended his panel's conduct. "I've heard nothing shocking. Sometimes the purpose of the question is to bring out an open discussion or see how someone deals with an issue. They're going to be offended while on the bench from time to time. I haven't heard of any prejudicial comments made by anyone."

But several applicants interviewed by the Daily Business Review complained that JNC members have asked them:

• Whether they are active in their church.

• Whether the candidate is a "God-fearing person."

• How they feel about the U.S. Supreme Court's 2003 ruling striking down a Texas law criminalizing homosexual activity.

• How they would feel about having the Ten Commandments posted in their courtroom.

It's unknown whether such issues have arisen in other JNCs around the state. Through a spokesman, Gov. Bush's general counsel, Rocky Rodriguez, told the Daily Business Review that no one has complained to the governor's office about the JNC's questions. The chair of the Broward JNC, Georgina Pozzuoli, could not be reached for comment.

Members of the Miami-Dade Circuit Court JNC, and at least one judicial candidate interviewed by the Miami-Dade panel, said they couldn't recall any inappropriate questions asked in their forum.

Two Miami-Dade JNC members expressed disapproval of asking women whether their maternal duties would interfere with serving as judge. "That question has never been asked by our panel," said JNC member Gerald I. Kornreich, a partner at Kornreich & Terraferma in Miami. "It's irrelevant."

"If a man or woman had a large family, I don't think that's fair game [for questioning]," said Justin Sayfie, a Fort Lauderdale attorney and former top aide to Bush who now serves on the Miami-Dade JNC. "But I could see someone asking that."

Carol Licko, Bush's former general counsel who serves on the Florida Bar's Judicial Nominating Procedures Committee, said the question posed to Cassidy about whether she could balance her maternal and judicial duties was inappropriate, as was the question about the Supreme Court's ruling in the Texas sodomy law case. She said complaints should be filed with the Judicial Nominating Procedures Committee against the JNC members who asked those questions.

"That's why we have the committee, said Licko, a partner at Hogan & Hartson in Miami. "[The judicial candidates] need to file complaints."

Licko said such questions would not be asked by Bush or his staff when JNC finalists were interviewed in Tallahassee.

In an interview, the Rev. Dozier, a non-practicing attorney, acknowledged asking some of the questions. But he defended their appropriateness. "I want to know the applicants' spiritual makeup," Dozier said. "It tells me a lot about a person. I think a judge should be God-fearing."

The 26 state nominating commissions -- one for each judicial circuit, one for each district court, and one for the Supreme Court -- are charged with screening and interviewing applicants for state judgeships and sending finalists' names to the governor.

JNC members are required to attend a daylong training session sponsored by the governor's office and the Florida Bar. They are coached on ethics and the issue of judicial diversity, and are advised on what types of questions are appropriate.

The governor formerly shared responsibility with the Bar for appointing JNC members. But Bush and Republican legislative leaders complained that the state judiciary was blocking their legislative agenda.

In 2001, in a move widely seen as greatly increasing the governor's power to shape the judiciary, the GOP-dominated Legislature gave the governor the right to appoint all nine members of each JNC; the Bar's role was reduced to merely recommending four candidates to the governor.

Bush repeatedly has said that he wants a judiciary that reflects his philosophy of government, and has appointed many conservatives to the JNCs. "I'm looking for people who share my philosophy: respect the separation of powers and recognize the judiciary has an important role," Bush said at a JNC training seminar in Orlando, Fla., last September. "They don't need to be legislating."

On Jan. 7, Bush's office told the Review that "the governor does not supply questions to the JNC to ask applicants."

NO COMPROMISE

In 2001, Bush appointed Dozier, a black Republican, to the Broward JNC for a two-year term, and reappointed him to a four-year term last year. Dozier said he did not particularly want to be on the JNC, but was nominated by a group of black leaders in the community. "I didn't think I'm qualified for the JNC," he said. "I don't practice law. I thought it should be made up of practicing lawyers."

But now that he's on the JNC, he isn't shy about pressing his views on judicial candidates. "This country is founded on the principles of Christianity, not the principles of Buddhism, not the principles of Judaism," the South Florida Sun-Sentinel quoted him as saying Nov. 30, 2003. "I don't believe the developers of the Constitution would want us to compromise our Christian values."

Dozier is vehemently opposed to homosexuality, which he called in the Nov. 27, 2003, issue of New Times Broward Palm Beach "something so nasty and disgusting that it makes God want to vomit."

Dozier said he has received complaints from "atheists" who heard about his line of religiously oriented questioning during JNC interviews. But he argues that religion belongs on the bench. "There is no such animal as separation of church and state in the Constitution," he said.

But Dozier denied that he asked Cassidy, who has 4-year-old twins, whether she can be a single mother and a judge at the same time. He insisted the question was posed by another JNC member. "I know mothers who have two, three, four, five different kids and still function fine," he said. "To me that's not an issue."

Cassidy insists the question came from Dozier. She said she was so upset that she discussed it with her superiors in the Broward public defender's office, who initially planned to investigate the legality of the question. "My first thought when he asked that was, he must not be a lawyer to ask such a question," she said.

Cassidy wasn't the only one asked this type of question. The husband of another Broward judicial candidate told the Review he was contacted by a Broward JNC member and asked whether his wife could balance motherhood and judicial service.

Dozier does not deny asking Broward General Master Marina Garcia Wood how she felt about the U.S. Supreme Court decision striking down the Texas prohibition against homosexual activity. "I am totally against that ruling," Dozier said. "We cannot have a judge who feels sodomy is OK."

Dozier, however, said he is not opposed to gays or lesbians serving on the bench -- "as long as [they] can assure me [they] would not promote sodomy."

Last year, after voting to recommend one candidate for a Broward judicial vacancy, Dozier said he was surprised and disconcerted to get information that the person is gay. "If I had known, I would have taken the opportunity to search further and investigate," he said. "It's up to us to ask questions and investigate."

The governor subsequently appointed the person to the Broward bench. "My personal life has nothing to do with my ability to do the job," the judge said. "I don't think someone's personal life should be brought up during the interview."

SURPRISED

Another candidate who objected to Dozier's questioning is Maria Schneider, chief of the juvenile division of the Broward State Attorney's Office who was interviewed for a Broward judicial seat. She said she was offended by Dozier's question about whether she is a "God-fearing person."

But like most candidates asked that question, she answered anyway, partially out of surprise and partially out of her desire to be chosen as a judge. Her answer: "I'm not particularly religious, but I am spiritual."

She said she also was asked by another Broward JNC member, Coral Springs attorney Walter Blake, whether she would favor having the Ten Commandments posted in her courtroom. "Because of the separation of church and state," she replied, "it probably did not belong there."

Blake told the Review that he asked the Ten Commandments question "because it was a topical issue at the time."

But Miami-Dade JNC member and former Bush aide Justin Sayfie said he "didn't understand the purpose of that question."

Judicial candidate Frank Negron, a Broward assistant public defender who applied for a judicial vacancy, said he also was taken aback by some of the questions from Broward JNC members.

Negron said he was surprised that JNC members produced his record of voting in municipal elections and asked him about it. He said the Rev. Dozier asked him if he is God-fearing and active in his church. Those questions "came out of left field," Negron said. He also was dismayed to be asked which two U.S. Supreme Court justices he most admires. "It could be a litmus test question," he told the Review.

But JNC member Richard Zaden generally defended Dozier's questions, including questions about balancing parenthood and judicial service. All questions are fair game except those concerning race, religion, sexual orientation and political affiliation, he said. But he said he would not ask questions about religious views and activity.

Asked specifically about Dozier, Zaden said, "the reverend is a good person."

Harris Meyer provided additional reporting for this article.

 

i agree..the motivation..the "why" is huge. ultimately, i believe that separation..that chasm between us and God...is exactly what the Cross bridges across.

again..i agree in part and disagree in part...jesus very much spoke of heaven and hell as places beyond here. he tells the disciples he is going on somewhere else to prepare a place for them. he definitely talks about something beyond this world.

having said that...i totally agree that the Kingdom of God is, just as you say, right here, right now.

 

I always prefered John 3:17...

"Because God did not send His Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it."

I took a Christian theology class in college and my professor (a minister) pointed out verses like these that were so different from the fire and brimstone preaching I heard in church growing up.

"Even the least of those among you can do all that I have done and even greater things."

"What you do to the least of those among you, you also do to me."

"If someone steals your coat, give him your cloak also."

"Turn the other cheek."

"Judge not."

"Let he who is among you who is without sin cast the first stone."

These were the types of things that resonated the most with me, not the hard core warnings but the kindness, gentleness and peacefulness.

I remember my professor saying that the word used in the New Testament for God the Father literally translated in today's terms to "Daddy." Not Father, the authoritative, but the familiar, the personal. That was much more appealing to me than the King on his throne passing judgement that I read in the Old Testament.

Once I got a little older, I read the Gnostic Gospels and discovered things like Christian Mysticism, Quakers, Unitarians and people who didn't view Jesus through the ultra-conservative lens of the Lutheran Church I grew up in. That was much more appealing to me and still is.

 

Well said Jeff.

Manny. Think about this...

Imagine Jesus walking through a town in the 1st century. He haps upon a PROSTITUTE ("My word!"). You do know the story, right?

"He That Is Without Sin Among You, Let Him First Cast a Stone"
- Jesus

Now, imagine how Jerry Faldwell JUDGING her!!!! "TO the PIT OF HELL you must go, YOU SINNER!!!"

See the differencen between some (Republican) Christians, and how Jesus would deal with the situation. Jesus is not shocked about mans sin. He's saddened by it. It's men who are "shocked." "Anger, fire and brimstone" follow.

 

It is also ironic to note that the times Jesus did use the strongest language it was directed toward hypocrites within the church.

 

Great story, Jeff.

Jesus was a beautiful, compassionate man who hanged the world with love, not politics. There's a wonderful lesson there for all of us.

 

That's what I took your original post to mean, and an aspect that I think you are failing to recognize is that many people don't practice what they preach. I know several liberal Democrats who are Christian who believe that we should have certain rights in this country, rather the rights are up to Christian standards or not. You could look at it as a modern day individual separation of church and state.

 

I'm with you...but at the same time, grace doesn't mean you can keep living and dwelling in the same things...grace is ultimately for the Kingdom of God, which is here and now.

He says to those willing to stone the prostitute: "Let the one who is without sin be the first to cast a stone."

and when they walk away, he looks to the prostitute and says, "Go AND SIN NO MORE."

A holy God doesn't tolerate sin...and honestly, I don't want Him to. That makes Him less than holy. But He does deal with it on the Cross for us. It's not that being a prostitute is fine...and that sexual immorality is swell...but it's that we've all fallen short. The bar isn't lowered...the standard isn't lessened. It's just that the price was paid for us...and we're to live like Christ in response to that grace.