Can Cat and Yao co-exist on the court?

Hi you cat ass-licker. At least phx suns fans admitted Ming was as good as Amare. How could you compare Jason Collier with Yao?

 

Hi you Yao ass-licker. Stop taking what he's saying out of context.

 

no you keep searching. That was against the sucky magic who have lost 11 in a row. If you want to be exciting and see dunks,then lets keep steve and mobley.

If you want to EVER win a championship BOTH of these guys will have to be traded. Better sooner than later when their value goes down.

Its only a matter of time before they are traded,and tons of posters say "why couldnt this happen years earlier". I think its because we smart fans are smarter than CD. We didnt give taylor and moochie those terrible contracts and we have no say so in the matter either. This forum is useless. CD wont trade these sucky guards based on a stupid thread. It will take many losses in a row for them to be traded,that why im hoping the rockets lose atleast the next 4 games ,to try to prove my point.

 

If you aren't gonna talk to me like an adult, don't even bother wasting your time. I'll just put you on my ignore list.

 

You are getting in over your head. Why don't you read the previous posts, understand what was said during those posts, then reply. If you follow those instructions, you'll see why your post looks absolutely ridiculous and completely unrelelated to what we're talking about.

 

So you don't think Yao's play deserved ROY consideration?

 

Read this post ppl and then stop it with this Cat vs Yao thing.

 

how is that an objective look? you sound like Amare was the clear ROY over Yao. the fact is both of them deserved the ROY award last year and Yao really could have gone won it . in such situations, you always give your support to your teammates. imagine when Yao is asked who should be the west conf. starting all star PG, Steve or Marbury, he goes Marbury. I guess you'd be jumping all over Yao's back.

 

If you can't find an actual quote, then your whole argument is moot. I'm not gonna do your research for you, the reason you won't do it is because you are making the whole thing up. Facts require proof, don't claim something as fact without proof, unless you enjoy being a liar.


When did this turn into a whether Yao should have or shouldn't have won the ROY award? The point I'm trying to make is that you Yao only fans want to disect every little thing somebody does and says and turn it into a big issue. You should hear yourselves. "Mobley waived Yao off this one time, that means Cat wants Yao dead!"

 

Here is a quote from Cuttino from the Houston Chronicle:


"Give them co-(Rookie of the Year)," Rockets guard Cuttino Mobley said. "Both contribute big time to their teams and their race for the playoffs. You can't deny one for the other."


The whole article:

Survey gives Yao edge on Suns' Stoudemire in race for rookie award
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle


Right there on the Compaq Center court, with spectacular Suns rookie Amare Stoudemire there to see it all, and with appropriate NBA officials and corporate sponsorship representatives on hand, the Rockets will hold a brief ceremony today to present rookie center Yao Ming with his award.

The occasion is really another chance for another set of suits to pose with the NBA's walking photo op. Yao will be given his February Rookie of the Month award before the Rockets play the Suns in a showdown for the lead in the race for the last Western Conference playoff spot.

But a Chronicle poll of media members who cover the NBA indicates today's presentation to Yao could serve as a rehearsal for another award ceremony.

In an informal poll of 28 voters for NBA postseason awards (each category has 125 voters), Yao was named as the choice for Rookie of the Year by 20 voters, with Stoudemire, 6-10, getting the other eight.

"That shows how much of an impact he has on our team and on the NBA," Rockets forward Glen Rice said. "You've got guys constantly talking about how they want to dunk on him, how they want to try everything to stop him. That there alone pretty much says it all."

It also says something about both rookies that with a month left in the season, when the Rockets and Suns play today with the lead in the playoff race at stake, Yao and Stoudemire are expected to play key roles.

It might say as much that as convinced as the Rockets are that the 7-5 Yao deserves to be named the Rookie of the Year, they expect Stoudemire's brilliance has earned similar respect, even awe, from his teammates.

"Yao's the best rookie in the league," Rockets forward Maurice Taylor said. "Of course they would say it's Amare, but that's because they're biased. I'm not biased. That's an educated vote. But I just think Yao's the best rookie in the league. You can talk about records, what our record was last year (28-54) as opposed to this year.

"There's just his sheer presence. He has more of a presence on the court. Stoudemire is going to be a great player. But I think now, Yao has more of a presence, more of a feel for the game. Stats-wise, it's close. But statistics don't always say who's the best player."

Stoudemire and Yao have similar statistics, with Yao getting the edge as a shooter and scorer and Stoudemire an edge as a rebounder.

Yao has averaged 13.8 points and 8.3 rebounds. He has made 51.9 percent of his shots and 80.5 percent of his free throws. He has also averaged 1.88 blocked shots and 1.6 assists. Stoudemire has averaged 13.4 points and 9.3 rebounds. He has made 46.3 percent of his shots and 67.1 percent of his free throws. And just as statistics don't measure the way Yao's passing and defense help the Rockets, they don't show the way Stoudemire's power and flair have changed the Suns.

As much as the Rockets are convinced Yao is a rare rookie doing more for them than any rookie has for his team, it might say something that Rice quickly wondered about the wisdom of presenting Yao an award before a game against Stoudemire.

(Rockets officials said today was chosen for the Rookie of the Month presentation because it was the first home game this month that worked for the NBA and milk industry representatives to be in Houston. The got milk? campaign sponsors the award.)

Yao lives as a marked big man in the center of the Rockets' offense and defense. With waves of magazine covers, television commercials and media circuses that shine rare spotlights on the target on him, opposing players have said they have been moved to beat him up or show him up.

A natural tendency might be to question whether the publicity about Yao has aided a Rookie of the Year campaign, but it also has dramatically inspired opponents to test him.

"Obviously, when a rookie gets the exposure that Yao has gotten, there's going to be a lot of veterans that are going to want to show that exposure is unwarranted," Taylor said. "Then they have 300 pounds leaning on them, and they see he can play the game. There's a lot of people that want to stop him or want to dunk on him.

"The bottom line is he can play. When you get on that court, you find out it's hard to stop him. It's hard to dunk on him. There is a reason everybody is talking about him."

Jumping from high school to the NBA is no longer as rare as coming from China. But many teams, the Rockets included, have been talking about Stoudemire, 20, who is certain to have the most productive rookie season of any of the recent wave of players to make the difficult jump.

Yao does not consider the game a showdown with Stoudemire. But Stoudemire started at center against the Kings on Thursday, offering the possibility they will match up against one another. Scott Williams, who started against Yao last month in Phoenix, is listed as the starter.

"I think that's something good for the audience to see, not for me to think about," Yao said. "For our team, every game is the key to opening the door to the playoffs."

That goal would seem far more important than a pursuit of a postseason award, but in this case, the two could be closely tied. Though no comments were requested of voters, many said they would consider the results of the season's remaining 18 games. No game might mean more for the rookie competition or their team's playoff hopes than today's.

The Rockets and Suns are tied at 34-30. The Rockets have won two of three meetings with the Suns, giving them the chance to clinch a tiebreaker against the Suns with a home win tonight in the final game of the season series.

"It's a playoff game really," Suns guard Penny Hardaway said. "Every game from here on out is a playoff game, because it's for positioning, and we are fighting to just be in the playoffs. We are not a top seed; we are a (No. 8) seed right now. Houston has the home court right now. Their fans are going to be pretty fired up, but we are going to try to steal a win."

Taylor even offered an appeal for fans to treat the game as a playoff game.

"It should be (a playoff atmosphere)," Taylor said. "We want everybody to come out. We want it to be real loud. When we were playing in Phoenix, it was loud. So we definitely want everybody to come out. We definitely need this win. If we get this win, we'll be 3-1 with the season series and that can help us in the long run."

It could also go a long way toward determining Rookie of the Year. But if nothing is settled, there is another solution.

"Give them co-(Rookie of the Year)," Rockets guard Cuttino Mobley said. "Both contribute big time to their teams and their race for the playoffs. You can't deny one for the other."

But with a month to go, 20 of 28 voters did.

 

Here's the difference between you and me. I don't watch the NBA as if it were a soap opera, trying to find the deeper meaning behind people's actions and sound bites. I wouldn't jump all over Yao's back for saying something like that, that doesn't even make sense. How did you make that ludicrous jump in logic? I say that Cat was being objective and now suddenly that means that I get on players cases for saying supportive things about their teammates. You guys are so sad that you have to make up a false argument for me to argue against because you can't debate what I'm actually saying. Classic straw man fallacy.

I wouldn't jump on a player's back for something they said, I don't waste my time on such trivial things. I haven't jumped on Yao's back in here, yet because I'm defending a player of the Houston Rocket's against some dubious rumors, suddenly I'm anti-Yao. Well, unlike you Yao only fans, I support the team, the whole team. I don't go around starting anti Yao threads because I support him just as much as Steve, Cat, and the rest of the team.

 

How about a round of applause for Mr. Rob English. Way to go Rob, show these guys what facts are. Here we have the words straight from the Cat's mouth and they are quite different from what rocketjf said. Why would he make up false quotes for Mobley? Could it be because the truth completely dismantles his argument? I think so. I expect either a concession or an apology or both.

 

While Cat said both Yao and Amare deserve CO-ROY, I do sense some jealousy of all of the attention given to Yao. Before Yao came along, it was Steve and Cat. After Yao began making a big impact on the team, it is now Steve and Yao. JVG said so himself, "Steve and Yao are our two best players".

 

I'm sure there is some jelousy there. Especially when the guy was on the way to becomming an allstar. But to just claim that he has no intention of sacrificing for the team, as some people like to do, is what I take issue with. Particularly when he took a smaller contract to stay in Houston when he could have taken the big bucks in Toronto and been the guranteed 2nd option behind Vince Carter.

Rob, I take your quote from Van Gundy and I raise ya this article:

Mobley's game has forget-me-not flair
By JONATHAN FEIGEN
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle
Cuttino Mobley's name wasn't mentioned, and the omission screamed for attention. For so long, so much about the Rockets had been "Steve and Cuttino" or "Francis and Mobley." Then nothing.

Some of the change was expected because the Rockets added Yao Ming to the mix. Yao is a gifted 7-6 center taken first in the draft. Francis is a flash of backcourt talent taken second. But Rockets coach Jeff Van Gundy seemed to be saying a great deal about the name he didn't utter.

The only sure starters, Van Gundy said, would be Yao and Francis. The omission of Mobley's name, at the heart of so many Rockets rebuilding plans for so long, seemed a statement in itself about his role with the team and perhaps even Van Gundy's first-impression evaluations.

The Rockets, now and for years to come, would be built around Francis and Yao, Van Gundy said. Mobley seemed to have been demoted from leading man to character actor.

Van Gundy said he did not mean to give off such clues. But Mobley could not have been faulted were he inclined to wonder. But he insists he didn't.

"I don't care about that. ... We're cool," Mobley said. "I'm excited about this season, this team. I'm just going to go out there and play my game. Everything's cool and feels good."

If his role is to be measured as players often weigh such things -- by time and touches -- Mobley, four games into the schedule, remains front and center.

For the fifth consecutive season, the Rockets' statistics begin with Francis and Mobley. Mobley, averaging 16 points per game, has made half his shots and a sizzling 61.5 percent of his 3-point attempts. He has played more than any other Rocket, and only Francis has taken more shots.

"Nothing's really changed," Mobley said. "It's pretty much the same. I'm working on my shot a lot. That's what matters with my shot -- putting in the work. Then if it goes in, it goes in."

But even if Mobley can say that he did not wonder what his role would be, he perhaps was more prepared to be a supporting player than a headliner anyway.

Mobley can call on the bravado of an All-Star at will. But long cast as "the other guy," he also seems to cling to his years of being unnoticed or unappreciated.

While a high schooler in Philadelphia, he was overshadowed by Rasheed Wallace and Malik Rose. In pick-up games, he was the "little brother" to mentors Eddie Jones and Aaron McKie. Even at Rhode Island, he was overlooked until late in his senior year because of the attention that went to Tyson Wheeler.

With the Rockets, Mobley was the other rookie, sharing the backcourt with Michael Dickerson. A year later, he became the second half of "Steve and Cuttino."

Mobley has remained so conscious that he was not chosen until the second round that he has given tickets to youth groups in bundles of 41, representing his place as the 41st pick of the 1998 draft.

"Me and Nick (Van Exel) talk about that all the time," Mobley said. "Not many second-rounders make a name for themselves. I'm blessed. I only have five years in the NBA. I have some years to come. Jeff and those guys want to help me to be a better player."

That beats being ignored. But Van Gundy said he never meant to omit Mobley. He was speaking of Yao and Francis in a context that had always included Mobley.

"I'm just saying that's the way the team is going to be built: around them," Van Gundy said. "That doesn't mean anybody else's role is going to be diminished. I just feel when you're starting to build a team, you need to surround your two best players, your two pillars, with the right components. That was no knock on Cuttino. I think Cuttino has the ability to be a lock-down defender. I really do."

As long as we're reading between lines, note that Van Gundy said "has the ability." He did not say Mobley is shutting down opponents. And with the next games against Orlando and Tracy McGrady, last season's NBA scoring champion, and Miami and Jones, a former All-Star and Mobley's childhood role model, Mobley's defense will be tested.

Asked how far Mobley has progressed defensively, Van Gundy said: "I would think that would go to a state of mind. I think that question should be posed to him."

Mobley wasn't sure. As for the "state of mind," he said he prefers a great defensive performance to a high-scoring night.

"It might not seem like that, but for me, a really good defensive night is better than an offensive night," he said. "I can score any time. Shutting down a really good player, or at least getting them to shoot bad and feel uncomfortable, is better (than scoring). Scoring is easy for guys that grew up averaging 20. To shut down somebody averaging 20, 30 points is hard."

Mobley came into the league billed as a potential defensive star and showed signs of that talent as a rookie. Last season was his best defensively since that season. But it has been well-known throughout the league that the same first-step quickness he uses to score could be employed more often defensively.

"That's what I was telling Cuttino," Jim Jackson said. "He could be a great defensive player if he really wants to. There's a want-to. I can see him working."

Van Gundy, of course, has left him little choice. Mobley might not be the defender Van Gundy believes he can become, but Mobley said he was flattered to have been thought of that way.

If nothing else, it shows that what was said meant much more than what wasn't.

 

Don't worry. JVG is fielding Cat only because he has no other options currently. After Eric Piatkowski recovers, Cat will be a bench player.

I am pretty sure about that. Eric wasn't just part of any packaged trade in the off-season. Eric was specifically sought after by Rox, and we have to assume that it was predominantly JVG's decision.

And do any of you notice the fact that JVG never (or seldom) mentions Cat's name?

 

I wasn't arguing for the thread starter's view. I think he just speculates that cat doesn't like Yao. I don't believe it as a fact. the reason I quoted your post is that I didn't understand how you think that Cat's view that Amare over Yao for ROY is objective, which is found out to be false information later by rob english. but at the time you wrote your first response, i think you'd assume that what the thread starter said Aamre is ROY was truly being said by cat, and still thinks it's an objective look.
as far as giving your teammates support goes, i think it's argued by others before that what Cat said (co-ROY)is inappropiate.

ok. you are not anti-Yao. but i don't see you defend Yao as much as Steve and Cat. people do have their preferences of players. that's fine. and you need to stop labeling people Yao-only fans. i've never said anything on this board that would qualify me a Yao-only fan. get some quotes before making accusations. oh, well. who cares? i don't want to waste time arguing more.

 

very well said. totally agree with you on this point. Now, I don't know how and when it started. It seems me that more and more people like to label other posters as Yao-only fans, or anti-Yao fans, or Steve-only fans, things like that. I mean, come on! fellows! what's wrong with us? Just because some people say a few different things about the player you don't like doesnt' mean they are *** only fans.

 

I'll bet you a million dollars that Pike won't be a full time starter.