Can Asik co-exist with Dwight (If Rockets get him)

It's hard to come up with a list because those lineups are not effective... I'm not saying it won't work for us, but historically they didn't work.

Off the top of my head:
- I think the 76ers had a rotation of Dikembe Mutombo, Theo Ratliff and Tyrone Hill in the post. Though, I can't remember if Tyrone Hill had a jumper.

- Shaq and Elden Campbell started together for 1 year in LA.

- Yao had a jumper when he played with Cato but he didn't have a true face-up game.

- In his first 2-3 years in the league Dwight was a PF with Tony Battie/Darko Milicic were the C.

 

Philly traded ratliff for deke. Darkp and howard did play together on the frontline and actually made the playoffs. That's how darko got the contract from minny. Orlando traded cato for darko and he avg like 10-6 in the playoffs and got a mle deal from minny. Shaq and elden played together for a yr also,but elden also had range to 16 ft or so. Lakers eventually traded elden though.

 

That's right! I forgot they were traded for eachother... Thanks leeb. Maybe I'm getting Theo mixed up with Nazr... Who was in their main big man rotation in the finals, Deke, Hill and?

 

Shaq? You mean one of the greatest post players of all time?

Neither of those teams were effective. First-round fodder.

A lot of teams put bigs together where neither possesses a good post game nor a jump shot, but they just end up as bad teams because of it. Howard and Asik, with their current skills, are not a good fit together. Just because we're not a lottery team with them doesn't mean it's a good idea.

 

I don't think our offense would be very effective with them on the floor at the same time. It definitely gives us the luxury of getting an interior presence at all times but as you said we thrive on a pick and roll/drive and pass out offense. At this point no defense would be afraid of a pick and pop from either of these guys and would cause all sorts of ISO ball or around the world passing.

Spacing is so critical and I think that's why a lot of people are pushing for a player who is comfortable yet effective with a mid range shot.

 

(on steroids)

 

I think the first year we should keep Asik since we're not sure what D12's health is like. It's good to let him rest more. I don't think they should both start unless Asik develops a good midrange which I think is possible. Gortat's situation is different because D12 was young and healthy back then. Gortat is a better post offensive player than Asik, at least for now. He got the contract to leave the Magic whereas Asik got the contract from Houston in Restricted free agency.

 

At first I didn't like the idea of both Asik and Howard mainly due to the cost of both and their almost mirror image games.

The more I think about it , the more I like the idea .... their minutes don't have to necessarily overlap much and it gives you the option to go big with two of the best rebounders in the league.

You can start the game with both on the floor and dominate the boards on a regular basis as very few teams have the bigs to compete with Asik & Howard.
At the 6 minute mark you rest one of them and can always have one or the other on the floor thru out the half - start the second half the same way. Each could average ~34minutes a game that way.

I know free throw shooting is an issue for both but we also have to consider that those fouls lead to being in the bonus earlier .... That gets Harden & others to the line more often while putting opposing players in foul trouble. Its a double edged sword.

With Howard in the paint , its much more difficult to double Harden ... Its near difficult to double one player without giving up good looks to his teammates and near impossible to double two without giving up the same.


Bottom line , they don't have to co-exist on the floor at the same time for long stretches but they can easily co-exist on the same roster together and thrive.

 

They really can't for more than a few minutes. Both need to be under the basket for offense.

 

That's where you are wrong - especially in pick and roll situations.

One sets up on the low block or baseline and crashes the paint as the play develops .... the other sets a pick at the elbow .... Someone's getting an open look be the initial ball handler , the pick guy , the one cutting to the basket or one of the shooters at the 3pt line.

It also makes it difficult to double either directly or early in the possession without giving up an open look elsewhere. Defenses just cant commit to doubling , they have to rely upon rotation at precise moments.

 

Been discussing alittle bit with Coach nick @bballbreakdown. couple of minor things.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/bballsource">bballsource</a> any chance you could breakdown how omer asik and d12 could be on the court at the same time? How it could be successful?</p>&mdash; hayden (@rocketsfan34) <a href="https://twitter.com/rocketsfan34/status/342885868702404608">June 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/rocketsfan34">rocketsfan34</a> it would work great because Dwight wouldn't have to grab every rebound. Offensively, it'd be a little awkward</p>&mdash; BBALLBREAKDOWN (@bballSource) <a href="https://twitter.com/bballSource/status/342889664539160576">June 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/bballsource">bballsource</a>Thanks for your reply, is there an offensive system that would support it?</p>&mdash; hayden (@rocketsfan34) <a href="https://twitter.com/rocketsfan34/status/342909144245882880">June 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
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<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>@<a href="https://twitter.com/rocketsfan34">rocketsfan34</a> triangle would work great.</p>&mdash; BBALLBREAKDOWN (@bballSource) <a href="https://twitter.com/bballSource/status/342999490208333824">June 7, 2013</a></blockquote>
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Got to love what BBallbreakdown does, coach nick has started something real nice. Check him out, hes always got something nice to say about the Rockets.

 

Bring the Zen Master in to coach the triangle!

 

aşık was there to pickNroll at high post all season. His bb iq is high and he knows when to roll. ,that is how he got 10 ppg with those slippery hands and awkward layups. His shooting mechanics arent that bad also. He may develop mid range shot. And while dwight is there for offensive rebound and center of opposing team gets out to contest, it is not that bad at at all.

we have good penetrators and with 2 hard picks, they might be more dangerous. Harden also can create for himself and others. But the question isnt how we going to score if dwight and aşık plays together. It is how THEY gonna score. defense wins you championships baby.

 

Thing is, we'd have half the salary cap---THIS season---invested in the center position.

If one of them were more of a 4/5, there'd be no discussion here.

Maybe the main factor, and for some reason I just can't wrap my head around it:

If either Lin or Asik were traded, would their contract change so that the 3rd year would again become a "balloon" payment?

If Asik were traded and he'd still get 8.3 and 8.3, that's one thing. But if the contract goes to, what?, 15 or more in that last year, he'd be tough to move anyway, and the whole argument would be moot.

We do need someone as DH12 injury insurance. Asik is overpriced as a 16 minute per game backup. Would DH12 be able to play 4 alongside him?

Against some teams, you'll get more twin tower action. Against others, you'll get less.

 

As far as the cap goes, Lin/Asik count 8.3 per yr even if we traded them. It does not balloon out just because they are traded.

Asik would not just be a 16 min backup. He'd be a fellow starter, probably at the 5. We'd try to stagger their minutes a bit, but have times when they're together. For the games/matchups that the fake Twin Towers will not work with, then have Asik sit a bit more during those games.

Would Dwight at the 4 and Asik at the 5 be really effective though? That's the age old question and why this thread was made lol.

 

Cap wise, Asik would count as 8.3 + 8.3 but his actual salary paid would be 5 + 15. So while the future trade team's GM would be ok with 8.3 from a cap standpoint, the owner has to sign off on he's picking up Les's bill. The same is true for Lin.

 

Thank you. Clearly explained.

So if he were traded (which I'm not advocating, but which might happen), he'd have to be traded to a not-cheap team/owner.

"Cheap", in the sense of, my dad, for example, when I was 12, my uncle saying to my dad, "Vern, you're so cheap, why don't you buy a dishwasher?" And Dad looking at my uncle but pointing at me: "Don't need to spend the money. That's the best dishwasher you could have, right there."

 

I agree about the triangle but my concern is that you have to have one good to great passer and one offensively gifted person playing in the post of a triangle. I can see Asik grasping it pretty quick but Dwight might need more time. Do you all remember when Phil Jackson first got to LA? Shaq struggled getting the concepts of the triangle at first because he needed to be a better passer and get a little smarter/creative with his options when he had the ball.

 

When I saw Splitter's scoop last night in the first quarter, I was thinking Asik. DHo will get plenty of offensive rebounds and putbacks with Asik's wild flips in there.

 

That would be a Negative on Tyrone Hill's jumper. He couldn't even shoot free throws. I liked the guy though for his days struggling in Golden State and actually making that one all-star team in his prime.

The stretch 4 (to the 3-point line) is highly overrated. I'd much rather have my 4 take a midrange 15-17 footer, which many bigs have proven they can make regularly with training. It really is just a free throw or a free throw plus a step. Even Asik has shown some reliability and likely improvement in this regard. Plus Harden and Lin have proven they can make the kick-out, spot up 3-pointer. Less wear and tear on their bodies as well. For all the b****ing about Lin's 3-point shot, he was very good in the 2nd half, solid last year on the Knicks, and likely to improve further. Plus, Lin's 3-point percentage, even including his horrid injury-related start, ended up HIGHER than Chris Paul's 3-point percentage, and no one complains about CP3's outside shooting.