That's ridiculous I've lived in Minnesota for about 10 years and I'm still a die hard Rox fan, and Astros fan for that matter. I've got a good friend from Denver who's lived here for just as long and he still roots the Nuggets and Broncos. Just because someone moves doesn't mean you give up on the team you grew up with. If you're saying we don't know if someone really is a YOF since Yao hasn't left the Rox. You are correct sir. But considering that there have been posters who have said that Yao should be traded because the Rox aren't keeping him from his full potential pretty much answers the question that yes, they are only interested in Yao and could care less about the Rox.
Hey I love those guys but considering its only Yao's second year it wouldn't bother me too much if 20 years from now Yao was in the HOF as the greatest Rox center because that would mean we won a lot of championships.
That's exactly my point. I stated in my post that a YOF should be someone who put Yao's befinifit above the team. Cluth gave the example of YOF based on the future prediction, but this label has been thrown around very frequently here. That's just logically flawed. I was using local fans as an example to highlight his logic flaw, not to belittle any of them here. --daoshi
I know I said I was done...but I do have to say.... in this...we agree....I would love nothing more than to see Yao go into the Hall as one of the best Rockets centers. but since I saw both Big Mo and Hakeem play...specifically I saw Hakeem when he was Akeem at UH....I seriously doubt that Yao will surpass Dream..this is no knock on Yao...but Dream was just a freakishly athletic center that no one in the league could contain from Day 1...it didnt take Dream long to show the league who he was and what he could do.....and then, just when you didnt think he could do more......he got BETTER!.... I really and honestly hope Yao turns it on and becomes the most dominating force inthe league for the rest of his career....but even if he does......he will not surpass the greatness that was Hakeem "The Dream" Olajuwon.
No daoshi you said: which is ludicrous because lots of people have moved from Houston and still are Rox fans. Where as OTOH there are posters who have said Yao should be traded, or the rest of the Rox traded, so Yao has a team that will let him play up to his potential. That's not future that's now. To me that sounds like someone who cares more about the Yao than the Rox Or in other words a Yao Only Fan.
Hell, freakin', yes. Agreed 100%. And that might be the essence of it all right there. We want Yao to succeed because of what it means for the Rockets. If he exceeds the accomplishments of guys like Malone and Olajuwon, we are in amazing shape for a LONG time and that is just fine by me. Personally, I love Yao. I root for him like crazy. I know his success is directly tied to the success of the Rockets so I want him to be greater than great. BUT, if he left and played for another team, which I honestly hope never happens, I'd boo him like he was John Stockton.
I know I said I was finished ....Part 2 this is it this time.....really The point you are missing Mr Logicman...is that the definitionof YOF is not based on future performance.... It s based on their actions and words NOW. if at some point they become fans of the ENTIRE TEAM...then so much the better.....welcome to our little club....have a brew with the rest of us and enjoy the Rockets.. We arent saying someone's priorities cant change....but at THIS POINT IN TIME....they only care for the welfare of one player.....thats why they have been labeled as such. Your examples of out of town fans means nothing..I know plentry of out of town fans that still support the Rockets even 10-15 years after leaving our fair city.. If I moved....I would still be supporting the HOUSTON ROCKETS until I die, or they cease being the HOUSTON ROCKETS. Period. I really honestly hope you can get this straight....cause Im done with this daisy chain argument..
But your example has worked against you, there are many of us who have moved out of Houston but will always pull for the team and follow it's progress regardless of where we live and, more importantly, regardless of what players are out there in the Rocket unis.
It is just sad for me to see admin on this board is also doing the cheap labeling and sterotyping. Remember the other thread titled something like "It's sad that i stopped caring"? I like to see arguments, backed by facts, instead of cheap labeling. True I came to this bbs because of Yao. But calling me not a Rockets fan is simply not true. And I believe most Yao fans know in order for Yao to succeed, Rockets need to succeed. Same applies on the other way around. I stand corrected on my statement that Yao brought Rockets back to world map last Year. Rockets had championship runs back in 95-96, but the last 3 years before Yao were not the most glory years of the Rockets. Otherwise how would you explain Rockets profit went from 2nd last to 2nd best in the NBA last year? Or why Yao-Shaq I is the second most watched regular seasons game ever? Or Rockets suddenly became a TV darling this season with 23 or so national games? Calling Yao the best he can do is just 3rd best center for Rockets in this second year, is just cheap, no matter how many times you mentioned history in your post.
Hey, you and I have the same feelings with the Titans and the Texans. I guess we who are not in Houston when the team left feel somewhat differently than those who were still in Houston. Since we don't get a lot of exposure to the Texans now, we don't get attached to them as quickly as those who live in Houston. Jeff, if Yao left, I wouldn't boo him like Stockton. I'd still root for him unless he's playing against the Rockets.
YOFs, apparently the HOF don't want you guys to join their sacred group so why not just be who you are. Let them call the name. It's true and it's not bad to be labelled YAO-only is it ? Yao is great after all, where is the shame to be related to him. As to HOF, Yao brought hope to this team, and you should appreciate the fans he brought as well. Sure Yao didn't increase the attendence, but he brought the POTENTIAL to increase the attendence and a championship. Imagine your team with Jay Williams or Lamar Odom, there's no hope till Francis contrat ends. Because that group will be good enough to get into playoffs once in a while, but never any better. As to Yao brought 1.4 billion new bball fan that's entirely incorrect. Basketball has long been the top two most popular sports in China. They may not know old NBA that much just like you don't know the Chinese bball legends.
Clutch, this is a pretty strong accusation. I think some YOFs must have done something very harmful to this board. Rather than not particularly like rockets, why do u think they hate rockets? I am YOF by your definition. With all due respect, would u please tell us where do u stand on YOFs visiting this board? Dont post from the YOFs' point of view? Dont post on this site? Dont visit this site? Please take no offense from the questions. I respect this site so much that I will certainly follow your instruction on this matter. I will leave this board without any hard feeling if I am not welcome here. This is your site and u dont have to let someone in who potentially would ruin your property. Thanks
Stereotyping? Come on. Stop being such a baby. Also, please note: Yao is actually only the 5th best Center in Rockets history, if you count Ralph Sampson and Elvin Hayes as Centers, where they both played a lot of the time.
See the "if" "could" "wind up" "considered" words ? When can you read stuff as what it is meant. Why don't you stop being a baby and say something with substance.
Man, this is getting hilarious. No question that the years before Yao arrived were tough on the team, but 3 years do not a franchise make. There is also no question that Yao made the team money but I don't know where you get your profit numbers from. I can tell you those are incorrect. I agree that Yao/Shaq is a big deal and the Rockets are a TV darling because of Yao. I'm glad. I love nothing more than my favorite team getting the publicity we all know it rightfully deserves. I could care less if it is because of Yao or the continually receding hairline of Jeff Van Gundy. Whatever gets us national airtime is fine by me. However, what you attempted to do was to compare Yao to Lebron James and Carmello Anthony in terms of his vs. their direct impact on ticket sales. I simply pointed out that, unlike Cleveland and Denver, the drafting of Yao did not mean immediate sellouts at games. Maybe that's a reflection of the city or the losing record of the team over the past few years, but you can't say that the team's attendance has had a dramatic rise because of Yao because it hasn't. You were the one who said you prefered facts to conjecture and that's a fact. As for other facts, calling Yao the third best center in the history of the Rockets - 2nd year or not - is TRUE. It's not cheap. It's reality whether you want to admit it or not. Again, you want facts, fine... Moses Malone over his first two seasons averaged 18 points on 49% shooting, 15 rebounds and 2 blocks in 34 minutes per game. That includes 20 points and 16 rebounds per game in his second year. Hakeem Olajuwon over his first two seasons averaged 23 points on 54% shooting, 12 rebounds, 2 steals and 3 blocks in 36 minutes per game. That includes 23 points, 14 rebounds, 2 steals and 3 blocks per game in his second year. Yao Ming over his first two seasons has averaged 14 points on 51% shooting, 9 rebounds and 2 blocks in 30 minutes per game. That includes 16 points, 9 rebounds and 2 blocks this season. By ANY measure, Yao is behind Dream or Mo Malone when comparing their first two seasons in the NBA. That is just fact. Here are some Rocket players in their first two years with the franchise: Elvin Hayes - 28 points and 18 rebounds Calvin Murphy - 17 points and 5 assists despite playing fewer than 26 minutes per game Don Kojis - 22 points and 10 rebounds Ralph Sampson - 22 points, 11 rebounds, 2 blocks and everyone's least favorite... Steve Francis - 19 points, 7 assists, 6 rebounds and 2 steals I'm not saying Yao doesn't deserve his spot amongst the greatest Rockets when it comes to comparing all their first two seasons with the franchise. He does. I'm just pointing out that he is, in comparison to other players in their first two years with the Rockets, the third best center and probably about 5th or 6th overall in the history of the team. Being a Rockets fan of better than 25 years, it gets frustrating to see people talk about the Rockets as if they didn't exist before Yao's arrival and as if the sun rises and sets with one guy. I am a HUGE Yao fan. I love watching the guy play. I agree completely that his development is the key to ultimate, long-term success for the franchise both on the floor at at the turnstiles. I am not debating that point in the slightest. What I'm debating is this idea that this has ANYTHING to do with facts or knowledge of the game and its history. If it did, it would be easy to admit that Yao is a brilliantly talented player who still has a ways to go to deserve being mentioned in the same breath as greats like Hayes, Olajuwon and Malone. To suggest otherwise is simply ignoring the facts or representative of the fact that many here wear Yao-colored-glasses for better or for worse. I don't think it is a bad thing to be a Yao-only-fan. I was a Dr. J-only-fan when he played for New Jersey and Philadelphia and admittedly only watched those games to see him play. But, would I start telling 76er fans that they needed to trade Mo Cheeks or Bobby Jones because they didn't compliment Dr. J well enough or suggest that Dr. J would be better suited if he played for the Lakers or Bullets? Hell no. Not only was it not true, it was disrespectful as hell to the people who supported that TEAM just as, while I loved Dr. J, I supported the Rockets. I also understood the fact that the league has history and did just fine before Dr. J and is doing very well after Dr. J. It didn't mean I stopped rooting for him. It just meant I had respect for both his play AND for the game itself.
in terms of attendance at rox games since yao joined the team, i'm guessing it is way up - when you factor in half the games the team plays that everybody is forgetting about, the road games. how many players draw 'away' cheers for their team like yao does for the rox? hmmmm. doesn't matter, clutch and the prima donna "i loved the rox first and for the right reasons" fans don't care, and don't want that road support for a guy saddled with the job of being the pioneer for chinese hoopsters in the nba. they'd rather have their own exclusive little club, and denigrate the new legion of fans yao is bringing to the rox and to the nba. well, that's how this 'outsider' sees it. enjoy your forum, though. am i gonna get banned for name checking and disagreeing with the purveyor of the premises? whatever. carry on.
Since when does attendance at away games translate to success at home? We weren't discussing the attendance on the road and there is no doubt Yao has increased that for the Rockets. We were talking about the comparison of Yao to James and Anthony when it comes to selling tickets on your home floor. And, in talking about attendance numbers, last year in his draft year, it went up by about 10 percent and this season, in a brand new building, it has increased about another 10 percent give or take. However, Cleveland, which routinely drew in the 9,000 range, is selling out almost every night as is Denver. Big difference. How in the world can you possibly say that being a Rockets fan is the exclusive club in this arrangement??? Given the fact that a small percentage of fans here align themselves with a single player while the rest of us support the entire team, I think you may have that backwards. No one is denigrating anyone and I'm thrilled that the guy is carrying the torch for Chinese basketball players. Nothing would make me happier than for Yao to become a legend both in China and the NBA. I'm just a little tired of my team and the other players on it being denigrated by people who only give a crap about their guy. I just don't understand why ANY of you shocked when you come onto a ROCKETS bulletin board making posts like "Yao would be better off with a team like Sacramento than Houston" and people get pissed. It would be like posting "I freaking HATE Dallas" on the ILoveDallas.com bulletin board. How do you expect everyone to react?
