1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

[Calling out larsv8]James Harden's Turnovers

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DudeWah, Feb 23, 2016.

Tags:
  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 1999
    Messages:
    63,510
    Likes Received:
    59,001
    It not only skews numbers for certain players and play calls, it completely penalizes everyone in a motion offense. That measurement places Kawhi Leonard at like 60th in the league, because he plays in a motion offense.

    I think you are stretching the meaning of "getting others involved." There is a difference between distributing the ball and passing when the defenses overplay you to get the ball out of your hand.

    The best example is the ISO play. The ISO play is pretty much the definition of the play that promotes the least involvement from other players. However, that play (and the PnR) will have the highest % of opportunities for the scorer to be within 2 passes of an "assist" versus any other play. More than two passes usually means the play has broken down. The play is designed to leave the scorer 1 on 1 or force him to pass. The hockey assist in that play is probably the worst indicator of any to say other players are getting "involved," when their job is to do nothing but spread the floor and be ready to either shoot a 3 or swing it.

    Again, I'm not criticizing Harden, just your use of the hockey assist.
     
  2. FTW Rockets FTW

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2011
    Messages:
    27,724
    Likes Received:
    21,397
    4 turnovers so far

    Still very much on pace for record TO's
     
  3. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2002
    Messages:
    46,550
    Likes Received:
    6,132

    At least he has 12 points on 13 shots
     
  4. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,489
    Likes Received:
    16,403
    The people that believe that harden is the problem is a classic case of sports fans falling for a narrative . Sports is entertainment , sportswriters and personalities spoon feed fans stories becuase people like stories . The problem is that outside of the locker room and immediate staff , no one knows **** . Once something is out there however , it's all too easy to jump on the train .

    A challenge , why don't you watch the game on mute , use your own thinking , then maybe look at stats after the game to confirm / analyze your own assumptions . If you do this , it's easy to see who our best and most dependant player is . It's easy to see how hard James plays most of the time . It's easy to see how smart of a player the guy is .
     
  5. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,892
    Are ü actually saying harden is at no faults in anything that has happened this season? Just because he is Houston's best player does not exempt him from any criticism
     
  6. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,916
    It's like you idiots go out of your way to look stupid.
     
  7. snowconeman22

    snowconeman22 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2008
    Messages:
    14,489
    Likes Received:
    16,403
    Of course he's not perfect . James' turnovers are not even a top 10 problem for us this year .
     
  8. YOLO

    YOLO Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2012
    Messages:
    46,688
    Likes Received:
    44,892
    Just making sure. The list goes on with the problems In order of importance but turnovers is one of them. But that's not the biggest worry at the moment. Carry on
     
  9. Obito

    Obito Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    3,804
    Hm.. All of a sudden it's pretty quiet in here...
     
  10. rocketshopeful

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,515
    Likes Received:
    22
    props to harden. I have been hard on hit at times but I aim to be objective.

    no chance without him tonight.
     
  11. rocketshopeful

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Messages:
    1,515
    Likes Received:
    22
    no chance without him most nights. sorry for double posting.
     
  12. jordnnnn

    jordnnnn Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    11,410
    Likes Received:
    12,647
    Dang.
     
  13. DudeWah

    DudeWah Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    9,643
    Likes Received:
    3,523
    There's nothing to be quiet about.

    I'm not sure why people don't understand this concept. Most of us realize this team would be nowhere without Harden. And games like tonight prove that to the max.

    That being said, however, Harden does have a turnover problem. Some of us are willing to actually be realistic and admit that while others are not.

    He plays in a lackadaisical way too often. You notice how last year no one cared even though he had a turnover problem then as well? Well, that's because he was giving effort almost all the time last year.

    That's what he did tonight, and I hope he continues that.

    On the flip side, some of us also realize that the team relies too heavily on Harden and fatigue/usage is a contributing factor with some of his turnover issue. Yet still, the extent of that is up for debate. And quotes from McHale indicating he came into camp out of shape do not help his image.

    Overall, there are too many blind homers who refuse to acknowledge that Harden has some issues.

    Criticizing him doesn't mean you think Harden is ****. He's the only reason we are even relevant in the current era.
     
  14. larsv8

    larsv8 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2007
    Messages:
    21,663
    Likes Received:
    13,916
    lol, he still doesn't get it.

    You are adorably ignorant.
     
  15. kingkingston

    kingkingston Member

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2013
    Messages:
    15,624
    Likes Received:
    9,465
    again tonight he does most of his turnovers in the first half trying to get everyone going
     
  16. Obito

    Obito Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2009
    Messages:
    10,683
    Likes Received:
    3,804
    I can agree that he needs to do a better job of handling the ball but it's quite easy to differentiate objective criticism & cynical criticism.

    There's blind homers on both sides, fact is you weigh the pros & cons. Everyone here knows Harden's cons but it feels like only about half of the people know that his pros excededingly outweigh his cons. I feel like that is why we have a problem.
     
  17. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 1999
    Messages:
    9,623
    Likes Received:
    7,929
    If anyone doubts James Harden is a great offensive player, they don't know basketball. But he doesn't maximize his offensive value to the Rockets when he's not busting his ass on defense, and there's no excuse for a guy of his talent to not be great there, too. The Rockets allowed 56 points in the 1st half vs Utah and 64 tonight. That's terrible defense, and while it's a team problem, Harden is at the center of the issue. Plus, the Rockets should expect more effort out of their best player and superstar defensively. It's his job to provide value on both ends of the court. Finally, the lack of 1st half defense is what put the Rockets in a position where they had to make a huge comeback to win tonight.
     
  18. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2002
    Messages:
    38,083
    Likes Received:
    29,508
    You know why this kind of thread is terrible?

    When Harden has a bad game, all the haters will come out to gloat. And when Harden has a brilliant game, all the lovers will come out to gloat.

    There's nothing worth a lick in between.
     
  19. Cashmoney

    Cashmoney Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2015
    Messages:
    2,623
    Likes Received:
    804
    He does get it actually.
     
  20. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2009
    Messages:
    19,925
    Likes Received:
    31,269

    Lmaoooooo
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now