MJ is the exception. Although, Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman were defensively dominant in their own rights. Spurs won titles with Duncan, Lakers with Shaq, Heat with Shaq, Pistons with Wallace, and Rockets with Hakeem. Need more proof that dominant big men win championships?
I watched Artest with the Pacers and in his younger days with the Bulls. He is definitely as versatile as Marion but since Shawn can play PF at a high level and then guard a PG at the other end I give the nod to Shawn by a hair. Artest has always been a mentally ill clown like you said even when he was on the Bulls. He actually seems a little less mental since joining the Kings. Well, I guess that is not possible unless he takes some serious meds soon.
Wait a minute. Are you calling Ben or Rasheed Wallace a dominant Big man? What can they do that Amare can't? A dominant big man is your go to guy, like Dream, like Duncan. Not Ben Wallace. I don't believe, especially in today's NBA that you must have a dominant big man to win. Duncan isn't even really a center. Based on your description of a dominant big man, Amare is one, so why do they need Shaq?
anyone who doesn't think the suns are closer to an NBA championship because of this trade doesn't understand basketball. Marion is a stats freak, but he has no go to move and cannot score on his own, which is why the spurs have shut him down every time they have met in the playoffs. (He was also going to leave when his contract was up) Shaq - when in shape- cannot be guarded one on one, which forces double teams, which makes other players better in a half court offense. In a run and gun game, he has merely to defensive rebound, outlet, and trail the play, which will save his energy for down the strech esp. in playoffs when the game tightens and you need to play in a half court set. Basically, they gave up nothing (a scrub and a player who was going to leave next year anyway) for a hall of fame center whom the spurs, lakers, and mavs will have no answer for come playoff time. They may or may not win it all, but this brings them closer, no doubt about it.
Ben Wallace was dominant on the defensive side. Pistons don't win the title without him. Regardless of position, Duncan is a big man. Amare is not nearly as dominant as Shaq can be. Shaq also gives them another option in the half court. The high tempo that the Suns have been playing don't win championships. You need a good half court set and thats what the Suns are going for. Two dominant big men and definitely better than one.
He said "a scrub AND a player who was going to leave anyways". He was talking about two people: the "scrub" being Marcus banks and the "player who was going to leave anyways" being Shawn Marion. And I agree with his opinion.
The Mavs played without Josh Howard (2nd/1st best player) and Devin Harris. Stop making up straw man arguments.
Talk about overeation to a regular season game. Where were you when they handiled the best team in the league the other night? (one of the few teams all season to handle Boston from start to finish) The Suns team wasn't going anywhere with Marion. They were going to be an inferior version of the team that last year, and 3 years ago. Now they may be done, but if so it was well before the trade. The trade gives them a much better chance versus teams with power inside players. Now their perimeter shooting has really fallen down for them, Nash has been the only deadeye from 3 land. They need guys like Barbosa and Bell, or maybe add Barry, to catch fire so they can spread the floor again and give Nash some targets. That guy was never going to be Shawn Marion.
Its one thing to gamble on a major trade in the off season but its another when you were #1 in the west fighting off all other close contenders and then trade away your best all around player who excel at their system to trade a completely different type of player who will change the way the whole team play. Yeah, very smart.
They should have either traded Amare to Atlanta for players/that 1st rounder (Al Horford) at draft night or traded Amare and players to Minny for Garnett. That would allow them to keep Marion and their team wouldn't lose any offense while actually getting better on D. Amare's a good player but he's not a game changer. Even if you compare him and Yao right now, Yao's more of a game changer than Amare will ever be--whether it be on offense or on defense.
Watching that game, I thought it was more of the Celtics losing rather than the Suns winning. They looked out of sorts with their game and weren't right offensively. The Suns on the other hand, despite winning, were showing those tell-tale signs, especially with those long offensive droughts in the first half. I mean...they ended up with 85 points for the game. Today's game seemed to confirm everything we thought was bad about this trade. Their floor spacing is gone, and without floor spacing, the spread offense is not nearly as effective without floor spacing. JVG so astutely pointed out today how a PHX turnover was caused by Detroit not needing to respect the 3 point threat as much, allowing their defenders to sag into the lane and leaving Nash with less room to operate and create. What's even worse is that despite all the outlet passes and stuff, their fast breaking game is clearly not what it used to be anymore post-Marion. Shaq blocking shots and getting rebounds is nice, and I'm sure his +/- stats are going to be great for them. But we all said they were really going to miss Marion, I think people are starting to see why.
