1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Californians Fight Back Against Conservative Economics wrt to Schools

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. madmonkey37

    madmonkey37 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2003
    Messages:
    2,499
    Likes Received:
    52
    Property taxes don't contribute to California's general fund, they go to local cities and counties to pay for schools and other services. California gets most of its money from its wealthiest citizens, a large portion of it coming from from capital gains on stock options.
     
  2. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    sam posted crap and didnt link to any source. If you can read you would have saw that I posted California's tax figures way before he brought it up along with a link.

    Here you go again from my other post.

    HIGHEST SALES TAX
    States with the highest sales tax are: California (8.75%), Indiana (7%), Mississippi (7%), New Jersey (7%), Rhode Island (7%), Tennessee (7%), Minnesota (6.875%), Nevada (6.85%), Washington (6.5%), Texas and Illinois (6.25%).

    If you want to round off all the tax burdens California is now in the top 5
    New Jersey residents paid 11.8%, topping the charts. New Yorkers were close behind, paying 11.7%, and Connecticut was third at 11.1%. The top 10 were rounded out by Maryland (10.8%), Hawaii (10.6%), California (10.5%), Ohio (10.4%). Vermont (10.3%), Wisconsin (10.2%) and Rhode Island (10.2%).

    http://www.retirementliving.com/RLtaxes.html

    Hmm Sam also said California is below the avg tax rate for large states. Well lets see shall we??? Let's take a look at the top 5 largest states.

    Largest States:
    1) California
    2) Texas
    3) New York
    4) Florida
    5) Illinois
    6) Penn
    7) Ohio
    8) Michigan
    9) Georgia
    10) North Carolina

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_population

    Wow the only large state on the list with higher taxes is New York. hardly seems California is paying less taxes than other large states does it?

    You people are only choose to read and look at facts posted by people with similar views as yours.

    Again why is everyone ignoring the fact that raising taxes EVEN more so California tops the list is not the answer???!! Look at New York!!! They are in a huge mess also. If anything it seems to prove that higher taxes is not the answer here!! Is raising california's tax even more so it surpasses New York going to solve the budget problem?? That is what all of your posts have come down to. Raise taxes on the residents of California. It's pathetic. The only thing it will accomplish is put California on top of the list above New York with still the same budget mess and more pissed off people who will just move out of the state.

    Now let's look at which large states are run more efficiently. Texas and Florida come to mind which both have a lower taxes and no income tax. See a pattern there?? HIGHER TAXES DOES NOT EQUAL A SOLUTION. So don't use the argument that larger states have different issues.

    Also apparently none of you want to admit California is a liberal/democrat state not a conservative one.
     
  3. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    apparently you ignored all the tax information i posted earlier...
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    59,007
    Likes Received:
    36,581
    LOL, your dataset is old and you are an idiot.

    http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/336.html

    The End.
     
  5. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    which is a good thing otherwise the out of control liberals (some republicans) would tax and spend california into the ground.

    One thing you are all forgetting the RESIDENTS OF CALIFORNIA DO NOT WANT THESE TAX HIKES that everyone on this thread who DOESNT EVEN LIVE HERE keep suggesting as the solution.

    Prop1A was voted down earlier this year that would have extended the tax hikes for already imposed for another 4 years
     
  6. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    So the data is a bit old message is still the same. California is right up there in tax burden and IS NOT Paying less than other large states. All I see is New York still. In fact all your data showed is California's tax rates have gone up.

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    59,007
    Likes Received:
    36,581
    Actually it is, California ranks behind NY, NJ, CT and MD each of which is pretty good sized in terms of population density and in terms of the types of problems each state government faces (as well as Hawaii), and is about the same as Ohio.

    Also, for like 5000th time, the variance between states is INCREDIBLY low. Aside from extreme outliers like Nevada or Alaska (both of which have huge budget holes btw), most states are in or around the 9-10.5% range. A few northern states are just above 11%. That's it. It's not exactly a huge gap.

    Maybe somebody can put this in a graph for you because you are unable to visualize it just from reading the words.

    The End.
     
  8. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    And exactly what is your point?
    What are you trying to prove or argue here? That California's taxes are not high enough?? You are citing overall (avg) tax burdens and California is amoung the top still. If it wasn't for prop 13 who everyone on here is bashing californias would easily be the highest state with the highest tax burden. California is #1 in Income Tax, California is #1 in Sales Tax.

    Also on the already outragouesly high sales tax most cities add .5-1.5% sales tax on top of the state sales tax. In some areas you have sales taxes as high as 10%! Now imagine paying that on everything you buy.

    From everything you have cited you have just agreed that California's taxes are among the upper end of all states. So if california is in the same boat as all the other states you want them to raise taxes even higher???

    Is your solution and argument here is to make that small variance you claim a HUGE variance? What are you trying to argue here?
    Apparently you have no clue.
    Also let me sumamarize the original topic of this thread for your little brain to comprehend.

    1) Op Claims Conservatives, Libertarians and Regan are to blame for Calfornia's mess. - FALSE

    The state has been in control of the Democrats for the last 40 years. Yes the state legislature is still a mix of Republicans and Democrats along with the Governor. So I agree both sides own some blame. But the OP's claim of blaming conservatives and Regan is ludicrous. Regan was the Governor here 40 years ago.

    2) Prop 13 is a huge topic here. For those of you that don't know it caps property taxes at around 1-1.3%. OP and others are claiming this is the main cause for California's budget mess and cuts in education. - FALSE

    Prop 13 is one small propsition. Also what everyone who doesnt live in California does not understand is we also have a CFD or aka Mello-Roos' tax which can be another 1% on top of your property tax. CFD tax revenue's main purpose is funding local schools, police departments and fire departments with education getting the biggest share. In my area which is known for its public school district (Poway) there is a CFD tax added to your property tax.

    3) OP's article states students are protesting higher tuition rates and some others claim UC system is crumbling - FALSE

    University of California and Cal State tuitions are still very fair and in fact lower than a lot of other state schools across the country.

    4) Op claims California is based on conservative policies - FALSE

    This is the most ludicrous statement of all. How can California be conservative when it is run by a whole bunch of Liberals? This is a fact that you can not Deny. California is not conservative!!! This claim almost seems like sarcasm. Even most of the so called Republicans are moderates than Conservatives. California spends more than any state dont say because it's the largest state but they spend the most of any state per capita on healthcare (medicaid, medical, etc), education and other public services.

    California is a LIBERAL state - FACT

    5) Sam claims California Tax Burden is below other large states - FALSE\

    only other large state with a higher tax burden is New York

    6) Sam claims California's budget mess is caused by it's inability to raises taxes due to the 2/3 marjority vote and suggests raising taxes is the solution - FALSE

    Budget mess is due to overspending. As stated earlier California's tax burden is amoung the highest already - FACT (supported by Sam's data also)
    So raising taxes even more is not going to solve anything.

    7) California is a top state in taxes but only marginally more than other large states - TRUE

    This point I will agree on but I summarize in the end what is your point????
    If it is only marginally more you want to raise taxes so that margin becomes a huge margin? How does that solve anything?? The other largest state in the union is Texas which has much lower taxes.

    RAISING taxes is not the solution! I am glad the people who actually live here in California agree by going to the polls and voting down any tax hikes that have been proposed. (see latest election of PROP1A,B) Remember these are not conservatives voting these tax hikes down. The Democrats have a huge majority in terms of registered voters.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    59,007
    Likes Received:
    36,581
    That California's taxes are really not extremely high by any measure (given that most state and local tax burdens gravitate to the same level of ~10%) and that your "HIGHEST IN THE NATION!!! blah blah blah" is a lie on your part to exaggerate the facts. Just like when you lied and claimed it was 2% higher than average when it was actually a half a %.

    Also, the fact that you won't acknowledge that the lack of ability to raise revenue hinders California's ability to balance its budget kind of shows that you're an idiot.

    That's just simple arithmetic.

    The end.

    P.S. I don't really read any of your posts - not only is the content bad, but you make them very difficult to read due to formatting. That's why I only quote a line or two. I don't have the patience for the rest.

    If you have something to say in the future and you wish for me to make note of it, limit it to a 3-5 line post. There's a chance I may read it. Thanks.
     
    #69 SamFisher, Mar 10, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2010
  10. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    aww poor SamFisher got backed in a corner and now he cant read anymore. You only ignore my last post cause you know you know I am correct.

    Again enlighten me on what exactly is your point on bringing up the 2/3 vote? How did they raises taxes last year which was the largest hike in history if they are so paralyzed from raising taxes?

    The 2/3 majority vote was put in place for checks and balances. It protest that not one side has all the power.

    Also answer me how exactly is getting rid of the 2/3 vote going to help California??? So that way lawmakers can raise taxes at their whim? Again you are ignoring California already high TAXES.

    Also I never stated what tax I was talking about when I said 1 to 2% higher. I was referring to the state income tax and sales tax which is a lot higher than any other state. 1 to 2% is conservative considering a lot of states dont even have a income tax.

    I forgot you can't read more than 3 lines. So just ignore the above and here are 3 lines for you

    YOU
    ARE
    PATHETIC
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    59,007
    Likes Received:
    36,581
    ^ I apologize if my words caused you to lose your cool. In the future I hope you re-read that post and realize that you just lost a substantial amount of BBS face with that little meltdown, and further how long it's going to take you to get it back.

    I think you have to just chalk this one up to experience. Live and learn.
     
  12. SunsRocketsfan

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Messages:
    6,234
    Likes Received:
    452
    Wow you are hilarious. I am sorry I make you lose face all the time then since that is how you act on a consistent basis. That is all you do on here. So by your standards you are always losing your cool.. Bravo..

    Before you talk about others you should really reflect on how you behave. Look at all your posts on this BBS and count how many times you have called someone negatives names for no reason at all other than the simple fact the person disagrees with you. You are always the first one to use words such as "moron, idiot, etc" and resort to personal attacks which is why I said you are PATHETIC and your last post just proves that point further. YOU ARE PATHETIC!!!
    I only bolded it in big letters to emphasize a point not because I lost my cool. So have a good day :)

    Also want to point out I replied with a post above summarizing all the facts of this thread. It seems to be a common strategy of yours when you don't have an answer you just resort to name calling and personal attacks to bring the thread off topic. Again PATHETIC... ;)
     
  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    59,007
    Likes Received:
    36,581
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    54,684
    Likes Received:
    42,809
    I don't have too much to add to this thread but being a former CA resident and an Alumni of Cal I think CA's problems can be pinned accross party lines. Yes CA's government shouldn't have handicapped themselves with propositions that prevent them from really making tough decisions regarding spending and taxation. Seeing the mess that CA is in once again reminds me that the Framers were correct to be suspicious of direct democracy.
     
  15. langal

    langal Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2004
    Messages:
    3,824
    Likes Received:
    91
    OP is saying that the problems are all revenue-based.

    That Reagan and GOP have been dominating state politics and CA is cash starved because of low tax rates.

    This is just nowhere near the truth. Despite that required super-majority, CA per capita tax revenues at the very least - on par with US averages.

    As Sishir brought up - if you want to complain about people voting for free stuff and bond issues, etc. but hating to pay up? Well that is a legit point and a symptom of democracy.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now