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Californians Fight Back Against Conservative Economics wrt to Schools

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. da_juice

    da_juice Member

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    too long, couldn't focus
     
  2. SunsRocketsfan

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    Again I think everyone is missing the point. If California is already one of the states with the highest tax burdens raising it is not going to solve any problems. I can't believe people are talking about the problem in California is they can't raise taxes easily. What is wrong with you people?!!! In fact we just had the biggest TAX HIKE in the history of California with the increase .25%-1% in the state income tax. A 1% hike in sales tax and the vehicle registration tax just doubled. I think your problem is over spending!!!
    I am not even sure if the people commenting here live in California. You guys are all nuts if you think California's problems stem from not being able raise taxes even more.
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    I live in CA. I can tell you that a slight increase in the vehicle tax or on the wealthiest of the wealthy would solve some of the immediate problems in CA. In Los Angeles Unified school district alone there are 1,800 school teachers who will be getting notices that their positions will be lost.

    They are trying to put class sizes for k-3 at 29 to 1, and 38 to 1 for 4-5.

    The taxes I mentioned could solve the budget short fall and prevent all of those lay offs. What I'm talking about is just at the elementary school level and doesn't address the fact that outdated and damaged textbooks have been held over yet again(this time until 2016.)

    Spending isn't the problem. The schools have been cutting like crazy. Half of the jobs in the district offices were cut last year, and thousands of teachers were already laid off. Class size also increased since last year. Cuts in spending have happened and have made the job of educators more difficult which hurts the education of a whole generation of people who aren't responsible in any way for the budget deficit.

    If a small tax vehicle tax or income tax of the wealthy would better serve to educate our children and save over 1,800 jobs just in elementary education alone, I'd be all for it. Dumping more people onto unemployment in this economy is only going to drain the states coffers even more.
     
  4. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    So- you are arguing that California's budget problems are in no way, shape, form or manner related to the fact that it is virtually prohibited from raising revenue to account for shortfalls?

    That's like saying the Rockets lose because they fail to make shots, not because they give up tons of easy baskets.

    PS you are completely full of sh-t when you claim that California's state local tax burden is obscenely high - it's consistently been comparable to any other large state (between 10 and 11 percent) and only slightly above the national average (9.5% as of last year). Pretty much all states tax around 10%

    Please be advised that future attempts to obfuscate facts may be exposed at my leisure.
     
    #44 SamFisher, Mar 9, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2010
  5. Refman

    Refman Contributing Member

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    Here's a question, because I admittedly do not know the answer...

    Does the calculation you are using of state government financial burden only include the income and sales taxes, or does it go deeper into state gasoline taxes, vehicle taxes/registrations fees and real property taxes?

    This could get interesting...
     
  6. SunsRocketsfan

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    The one that is full of **** is you. Go on and ride your subway making your meager wages. The one ignoring facts are the ignorant liberals like your self who are so blinded and want to blame everyone but yourselves. How have you exposed anything other than you are just an arrogant fool who roams these boards thinking you are so important when in reality you have no life and spend all your spare time on the net. Looking at the number of posts you have it is obvious its all you have in your pathetic life. Just Pathetic.. I pity you..

    I have been the only one posting UNBIASED facts on this thread. I have posted accurate state legislature information, policies, prop 13, and California's tax code which is the top 5 highest.

    You keep trying to ignore the fact and turn this thread off topic. Glynch made several claims where I refuse to reiterate again. I have asked him to back up those claims. What are you talking about California's inability to raise taxes? Do you live here? Do you know what happened last year? CALIFORNIA HAD THE LARGEST INCREASE IN TAXES IN THE HISTORY OF THE STATE. They need to cut spending not increase taxes. Why was there a decrease in revenue? Maybe it's the fact they keep raising taxes that jobs are leaving the state. That is the number one reason for decrease in revenues. People simply can't afford to live here.

    You show your ignorance by thinking 1 or 2% isnt a lot. It adds up over time and that 1 or 2% is 10% higher in taxes over the national avg.
    Also did you look at the education funding in California? It is one of the highest of any state. California teachers make higher salaries than any teacher in the country.

    http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2010/ranks/rank20.html

    59k+ compared to most states where 40k is the norm.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    You don't understand. Spending is being cut. They've cut spending for several years now. We still have the huge deficit. Again I posted figures and facts about the number of layoffs, cuts, etc. facing LAUSD alone. There are plenty of other school districts around the state facing the exact same problems. A tax hike would save jobs, and help keep class sizes lower, thereby helping student acheivement.
     
  8. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    I requote...

    Both sides of this argument have valid points, which serves to demonstrate why CA is so f**ked up.
     
  9. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Listen, I know you have a propensity for, shall we say, exaggerating on this BBS - but please stop telling outright lies.


    It's not 1 or 2% - California differs from the mean tax rate by 0.5% as of 2008 (10% to 10.5%). As you have just informed us that 2% is alot - that means the scale of exaggeration of your lie here is highly signficant.


    OF course, that's just the mean that includes sparse states that don't face the same issues as California (Wyoming, e.g.). Among other large states that face the same problems (New York, Illinois, etc), California's tax burden is generally less than the median.

    Because it is a fact that tax and budget matters require 2/3 approval from the legislature which makes them politically impossible, and that other taxes are capped due to referendums.

    These facts are clearly stated in this thread.

    You need to study up more on this issue before commenting again. I will not respond to you again unless you show you have done so.
     
  10. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    This is the major point that you need to realize, sunsfan. And yes, such a policy is conservative.
     
  11. SunsRocketsfan

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    Okay let's just say I play along and acknowledge this policy is a conservative one. Do i need to list all the liberal polices in california? California is definitely not a conservative state. Do you agree? Yes or No? If you answer to that is No then you seriously have some issues.
     
  12. SunsRocketsfan

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    A tax hike will also continue to drive bussiness out of the state. Thus decreasing Revenue even further. There is a balance here that needs to be achieved. If other states can balance their budget (with less taxes and tax revenue) then so can CAlifornia. Raising taxes is not the answer here.
     
  13. SunsRocketsfan

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    I have said in this thread that it is the people in power. Who are from both sides.

    IT was not me who brought this topic off topic. But others who just want to attack conservatives.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    It has nothing to do with liberal conservative, it's rudimentary artithmetic. If you are a state government, and you can't raise taxes, you have a much harder time balancing a budget. Please study this logic until it sinks in.

    The End
     
  15. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    This thread is about conservative economics (taxes, in particular) in california - policies and statistics that you appear unfamiliar with in the midst of your ongoing rants about "liberals".

    If you want to talk generic policies, I suggest you start a new thread.
     
  16. SunsRocketsfan

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    It is hard to calculate a tax burden on a individual. We have the highest sales tax out here which affects everything you buy. That extra 1 to 2% in sales tax does add up.


    Also you are the one that needs to study up on the issues. Did you not see that CAlifornia RAISED TAXES LAST YEAR! and it was the most in the history of the state. Hmmm sure seems like they had the abiity to raise taxes.

    Again I do not understand you guys who think raising taxes is the solution.

    After all this no one has answered or addressed the OP's claim that "conservatives" has caused the mess in california when california has been under the democrats control for the last 40 years. For those you that think california is conservative I am sorry you are just plain stupid then.

    In addition I never complained that california's taxes are unfair for a state this large I just state california is already one of the highest and most taxed states. You can't deny this fact. You can look at avg tax burden or you can look at individual taxes to Sales Taxes and Personal Income taxes. california is near the top so raising taxes even more IS NOT THE ANSWER.
    Do you guys live in this climate? I have seen bussiness and individuals move out of state since it has become less and less favorable to do bussiness here.
    I invested in a property with my buddies in Vegas and registered our bussiness there and others are doing the same.
    I reiterate RAISING TAXES is not the answer here.

    In addition the OP and some others further claimed the recent tuition hikes which caused the protest the OP posted is crumbling the education system and the UC system and how professors are leaving the universities.

    Now if that isnt an exageration I don't know what it is. The UC system is one of the most prestigious. Even after their tuition hike it is still fair. In fact several public schools are far more expensive than the UC schools. This is fact. Yearly tuition for UC is still around 9000-10000 a year. University of Illinois is somewhere in the 11000.
    Also the State run schools are by far one of the best bargains you can find anywhere in the states. Cal state tuition is still way below a comparable university in other states.

    We are in a huge budget mess and cuts have to made. People are going to have to make sacrificies for some of the public services here but again RAISING TAXES is not the SOLUTION here. It might solve some things in the short term but in the longer run it will only make the people in power think they have more money to spend which they will. Then we still be in a budget mess AGAIN. And what is the solution then? Raise taxes again??? and just drive everyone out of the state???
     
  17. SunsRocketsfan

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    'Again California has one of the highest taxes already. If they can't balance the budget with the highest tax revenues of any state then the people in power have the problem.

    The problem is the state legislature. When property values were shooting through the roof here the state had a huge boost in revenue. Instead of putting that money away they expanded more and more public programs. Now the bubble has bursted and those programs still exsist but there is no means to pay for them. Which is why they need to make some cuts now. Raising taxes is not going to solve anything.
     
  18. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Contributing Member

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    As the most populous state, doesn't it just stand to reason that they will have the highest tax revenues of any state?

    Sam posted analysis of tax rates in CA versus other large states and it talked about percentages rather than total tax revenue. Do you have similar numbers to talk about?
     
  19. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Apparently not.
     
  20. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    And their problem is that they are constrained by a supermajority requirement to raise taxes and voter-imposed spending mandates and tax caps.

    The end.
     

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