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Californians Fight Back Against Conservative Economics wrt to Schools

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Mar 4, 2010.

  1. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    California has been hardest hit by the anti-tax, libertarian-conservative economic philosophy. Ronald Reagan and friends brought it to California first. Old rich folks can sit with low taxes in million dollar homes while other folks have 30-40% increases in the cost of their education.

    Tax breaks to rich people fuel speculation in coastal real estate as they don't know what to do with their excess money but bid up the price of such real estate, making the situation worse.

    Everybody likes the free lunch of libertarianism in which you can have a modern society in theory without taxation. People love theories that say you just have to keep lowering taxes till everyone in wealthy and the government is overflowing with money due to the stimulation of tax breaks. It just doesn't work most of the time if ever.
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    'Day Of Action' Protests Grow At Calif. SchoolsSAN FRANCISCO (CBS) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
    Students at UC Berkeley block Sather Gate as they demonstrate during a national day of action against funding cuts and tuition increases.
    Justin Sullivan/Getty Images

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    numSlides of totalImages Millions of students, teachers and parents rallied in schools and college campuses across California and many other states to protest deep spending cuts to schools and universities.

    Demonstrations, marches, teach-ins and walkouts were planned nationwide Thursday in what is being called the "March 4th National Day of Action for Public Education."

    Students, teachers and school employees were converging in Sacramento to convince lawmakers to restore funding to public schools, reports CBS station KPIX-TV.

    Events were being held on most of California's public colleges and universities to protest budget cuts that have led to canceled classes, faculty furloughs and steep fee hikes.

    Protests, walkouts, pickets and other actions were planned at schools throughout the Bay Area, from elementary schools to universities. Thousands were expected to converge on San Francisco's Civic Center Plaza this evening for a 5 p.m. rally.

    Regional rallies were planned in civic plazas in Los Angeles, San Diego and other cities. Similar rallies and marches were being held Thursday in 17 other states.

    University of California President Mark Yudof said Thursday that he supports students who are staging protests against cuts to education funding.

    In a statement, Yudof said, "My heart and my support are with everybody and anybody who wants to stand up for public education. I salute those who are making themselves heard today in a peaceful manner on behalf of a great cause."

    "Our public institutions, from kindergarten to the doctoral level, have shaped our nation's course and are an essential piece of the American fabric," Yudof said. "Here at UC, through the Master Plan for Higher Education, we have created a model emulated throughout the world. It's time that model started receiving the support it deserves in the place of its birth."

    Yudof continued, "As my predecessor Clark Kerr often said, higher education should never be regarded as a cost, but rather as an investment. The university is an investment, not only in an individual's well being, but also in the public good."

    After meeting in Sacramento on Wednesday with Yudof and other education leaders and students, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he expects Thursday's rallies to be peaceful.

    Asked at a news conference if he was concerned that the protests would spawn unrest like that seen at the University of California at Berkeley last week, Schwarzenegger said, "I think that I have enough faith in our students that they're going to go and rally and let their voices be heard but they do it within the law."

    Schwarzenegger said it's "terrible" that the state has had to make cuts in education funding but he said it's been forced to do so because it faces a $20 billion budget deficit.

    The governor said, "We have had great discussions here about the funding mechanism" and that he's making it a priority to find permanent funding sources for higher education in California.

    "We've got to start thinking not only about this year, when we are in this year of crisis, but to think in the future about how do we guarantee that there is enough funding available for education," Schwarzenegger said.

    He said California should reform its tax system to insulate it from dips in the economy.

    "Our economy went down by 2.8 percent and we had a drop in revenues last year of 27 percent, so that is a dysfunctional tax system," he said.

    UC SANTA CRUZ
    Officials at the University of California at Santa Cruz advised employees and others to stay away from the campus Thursday morning due to the growing protests.

    As of about 8:30 a.m., about 150 protesters had gathered at both of the campus' two entrances, making it unsafe for cars to pass through, UCSC spokesman Jim Burns said.

    "People can walk through, ride their bikes through, but vehicle access has been restricted," he said.

    A "safety update" posted on the school's Web site at about 7 a.m. stated there had been a report that a windshield had been smashed near Hagar and Glenn Coolidge drives.

    The posting also stated that a UCSC staff member attempting to drive through a campus entrance reported that protesters were photographing the employee's car and license plate "in an intimidating manner."

    Campus police began turning away cars at the school's main entrance at about 6 a.m., according to the Web site.

    "It's not safe for the people that are in the cars," Burns said. "In the end, if they feel threatened by the people who are blocking the roads, it's ultimately not safe for the protesters themselves."

    Burns said many classes had been scheduled as normal Thursday, but some may be canceled since professors may not be able to get onto campus.

    Some instructors had previously made arrangements to hold classes elsewhere Thursday or cancel them altogether, he said.

    "We clearly understand the motivation for the protest and everyone is concerned about the impact of reduced state support for education," Burns said.

    However, he said, the university does not support blocking off the entrances, which "infringes on the rights of all students."

    PENINSULA
    Walkouts took place Thursday morning at Canada College in Redwood City and Skyline College in San Bruno as part of the statewide protest.

    In the protests at both schools, organized by the student groups Canada Strikes Back and Skyline Against the Cuts, students walked out of classes beginning at 10 a.m., according to event organizers.

    "The citizens of California want their public education back," said Robert Ovetz, an adjunct professor at Canada College.

    He described Thurday's events as "an impressive new movement of students and faculty and staff that are fighting to protect public education from privatization."

    A 30-foot by 20-foot banner reading "Rise Up and Walk Out" hung from the library in support of the several hundred students who had pledged to participate at Canada College, Ovetz said.

    He said some students told him Thursday morning that students at schools throughout San Mateo County, including in Half Moon Bay and Redwood City, were participating in budget cut protests Thursday as well.

    At Skyline College in San Bruno, a cross-campus march was slated to take place at 10 a.m. followed by a two-hour rally on the main quad, according to Michelle Araica, student leader of Skyline Against the Cuts.

    She said that Thursday afternoon, Skyline and Canada colleges have a carpool system set up to get to the Daly City BART station, where students will take BART into San Francisco to join the protests at 24th and Mission streets.

    The College of San Mateo also had a day of events planned, including poetry and music, to educate students about the budget cuts, but that school is not taking BART into the city with Skyline and Canada colleges, Araica said.

    UC BERKELEY
    About 1,000 protesters marched from the University of California at Berkeley to Oakland Thursday afternoon to meet up with other people participating in the protests, Berkeley police said.

    The students marched down Telegraph Avenue and entered Oakland at about 1:30 p.m., Berkeley police Officer Andrew Frankel said.

    University officials initially estimated that the marchers numbered around 300 but later revised that estimate to 850-900 people.

    The group was headed to meet with other East Bay protesters for a rally outside Oakland City Hall. From Oakland, they planned to travel to San Francisco for a massive 5 p.m. rally at Civic Center Plaza.

    The group carried a number of signs, many provided by unions including United Auto Workers and the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees. Some read, "Education is a Right" and "Don't privatize UC."

    Last week, a group of people vandalized campus and city buildings, spurring a riot on Telegraph Avenue.

    However, university spokeswoman Janet Gilmore said Thursday no problems were reported on campus since dozens of students began gathering at Sather Gate Thursday morning.

    At one point, however, student protesters were seen attempting to block other students from heading to class.

    Frankel also said there was no disturbances once the group of protesters began marching on city streets.

    "It was the peaceful protest that we hoped it would be," he said.

    NORTH BAY
    "Day of Action" events in the North Bay included a student walkout at Sonoma State University at 11:30 a.m. and an informational rally between 10 a.m. and 2 p.m. at Solano Community College in Fairfield.

    "We'll have information available and speakers on campus. We're saving our energy and gearing up for the student rally at the state Capitol on March 22," said Shirley Lewis, dean of student development at Solano Community College.
    Solano Community College has approximately 11,000 students enrolled at its Fairfield, Vallejo and Vacaville campuses.

    Sonoma State University students were planning to leave class and rally at the Stevenson Hall quad between 11:30 a.m. and 1:30 p.m., said Susan Kashack, associate vice president for communications and marketing.

    Kashack said SSU's administrators support the civil, peaceful rally.

    Sonoma State University Police Chief Nate Johnson said extra officers were monitoring Thursday's rally and march on campus. Some SSU students plan to join larger rallies in Sacramento and San Francisco Thursday, Johnson said.

    "We've been pretty calm so far. More funding for education is a collaborative effort," Johnson said.

    SOUTH BAY
    San Jose Unified School District spokeswoman Karen Fuqua said teachers and some students at Pioneer High School and Merritt Trace Elementary School began gathering for the rallies around 7 a.m. prior to the beginning of classes.

    The California Faculty Association planned a march beginning at 11:30 a.m. from San Jose City Hall to Seventh Street Plaza at San Jose State University, according to university spokeswoman Pat Lopes Harris.

    At the campus, several speakers were to address a crowd of students and educators, including representatives from the California Faculty Association and Students for Quality Education, a coalition of student groups at San Jose State and a local community college.

    As of Thursday morning, about 300 people had confirmed their attendance for the event on its Facebook page, Harris said. She said campus security was on stand-by to assist protesters at street crossings.

    "We don't anticipate any behavior that hasn't been planned, but we're always prepared for anything," Harris said.

    Students at De Anza College were preparing for a 12:30 p.m. bus trip to the City College of San Francisco to converge with the students there for a larger rally at 5 p.m., school spokeswoman Maris Spatafore said.

    Earlier this week, De Anza students set up tents on the campus' main quad to make a statement about the state's budget cuts to education, Spatafore said.
    Students spent the night in the tents in preparation for Thursday's event, she said.

    "They've taken outstanding initiative and we support them completely," Spatafore said.

    EAST BAY
    A number of elementary, middle and high schools in Contra Costa County participated in Thurday's "Day of Action" against budget cuts to education.

    Schools in the West Contra Costa Unified School District held earthquake drills from 8:30 a.m. to noon, district spokesman Marin Trujillo said.

    Trujillo said teachers congregated to protest the budget cuts and were planning to gather again after school.

    A flyer posted on the union's Web site states that the district is facing a $10.1 million reduction in funds for the 2010-11 school year. A spokeswoman for the teachers' union, United Teachers of Richmond, was not immediately available for comment.

    Schools in the Mount Diablo Unified School District held simultaneous fire drills at 8:30 a.m. to symbolize the "disastrous" effects of the cuts, said Mike Noce, president of the Mount Diablo Teachers Association.

    Teachers and union representatives held a news conference at Monte Gardens Elementary School in Concord before school started Thursday. State Sen. Mark DeSaulnier, Assemblywoman Joan Buchanan and a representative from Assemblyman Tom Torlakson's office were scheduled to speak, Noce said.

    After school, students and teachers were to be demonstrating at three intersections from about 3:45 p.m. to 5 p.m.

    Those intersections include Treat Boulevard and Clayton Road in Concord, Monument Boulevard and Contra Costa Boulevard in Pleasant Hill, and Ygnacio Valley Road and Oak Grove Road in Walnut Creek, Noce said.

    Students at Mount Diablo High School in Concord were planning to march from the high school to Todos Santos Plaza at 3:30 p.m.

    There was a rumor that high school students in the district were planning to walk out Thursday, but teachers are encouraging them to stay in school to keep the message of the "Day of Action" a positive one, Noce said.

    Superintendent Steven Lawrence said the district sent automated phone calls out to parents Wednesday night telling them the district supports activities before and after school, but said students should be told to remain in class for the entire school day.

    SAN FRANCISCO
    Students at San Francisco State University held informational pickets outside the administration and ethnic studies buildings on campus since early Thursday morning, said Phil Klasky, an ethnic studies lecturer at SFSU who is member of the California Faculty Association.

    The picketers planned to gather at 10 a.m. for a larger picket at the corner of 19th and Holloway avenues, where a street theater performance involving large paper mache puppets was scheduled for noon.

    The protesters were to then march to Malcolm X Plaza on campus for a 12:15 p.m. rally that will feature speeches by students, faculty and lecturers, as well as spoken word, poetry, and musical performances about the budget cuts.

    Klasky said he has been a lecturer on campus for seven years, and has "no idea if I have a single class in the fall."

    He said he also worked as a counselor at the ethnic studies department's student resource center, which was closed last semester due to the budget cuts.

    The budget reductions have also affected City College of San Francisco, where hundreds of classes have been cut, including the entire summer semester.

    Felix Cabrera, a history student at the school, said he is studying to become a high school history teacher but is having trouble signing up for classes because more students are trying to get into fewer classes.

    "Classes are getting larger and harder to get into, and if you can't get into them, then you can't get financial aid if you're not a full-time student," Cabrera said.

    He said that as a result, students are having a hard time graduating or transferring to four-year schools.

    "Cuts don't just affect us here, but where we're going to go afterwards," he said. "City College isn't supposed to be the end for students, but the beginning."

    Students, faculty and staff were gathering for a noontime rally at the Wellness Center amphitheatre on campus.

    Free food and music were to be offered at the rally, which will also feature "speak-outs" in which people will voice their opinions about the cuts.

    Elementary school students and teachers in San Francisco were also taking part in Thursday's actions.

    At 10 a.m., students throughout San Francisco Unified School District held emergency drills meant to symbolize that budget cuts are a disaster for schools.

    Dianne Feinstein Elementary School in the western part of the city planned to let teachers and students walk out of school at 1:10 a.m., an hour earlier than usual, so they can attend a 1:45 p.m. rally at Larsen Park.

    The school had 435 children and 19 teachers this year, but was expected to lose two teachers due to budget cuts while gaining 45 additional students.

    "If you do the math, that means ridiculously high class sizes," Liz Isaacs, a parent at the school, said in a statement. "How can we have engaged, joyful learners in this environment?"

    Bay Area protests were expected to culminate in a massive 5 p.m. rally in Civic Center Plaza that could be attended by more than 5,000 people, including many of the people involved in the earlier rallies Thursday, according to Matthew Hardy, spokesman for United Educators of San Francisco.

    The rally is expected to feature more than 30 speakers and performers from schools and universities that will call on state legislators to restore funding to public education, reports CBS station KPIX-TV.

    "What's happening right now is endangering a generation of students and their families," Hardy said.

    http://cbs4.com/national/California.students.protest.2.1538101.html
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Major

    Major Member

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    :confused: California has one of the highest tax burdens of any state in the country. They also have more social programs than virtually any state in the country and spend more on education (and have the most elite public university system) than virtually every other state. (all per-capita)

    I don't see how California can possibly be described as following an anti-tax, conservative economic philosophy. They are the very opposite of that.
     
  3. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    First time I've heard it described this way. Gave the LP money this year, but I'll still rep this.
     
  4. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Well they had an elite public school system it and it is crumbling. It is becoming affordable for only the rich.

    BTW real estate taxes are taxes, too.
     
  5. SunsRocketsfan

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    very well said Major!!

    I was so confused at the title I was thinking WTF? You are right NO ONE would ever consider California a Conservative state especially when it comes to economics. In fact no state is more liberal than California. Yes the UC school system is the most elite and best in the country for public schools. No public school ranks as high as Berkeley, UCLA or UCSD.

    I didn't even bother reading the crap article after the title. IT CANT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. I cant believe crap like that can get published.
    If you want to blame the school budget cuts and increase in tuition you have to blame the out of control spending which by the way has been controlled by democrats and liberals. California already has the highest taxes yet the state is still bankrupt due to what Major mentioned above with all the medicaid, medical social welfare programs.
     
  6. SunsRocketsfan

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    Stop blowing it out of proportion. What evidence do you have that the school system is crumbling? Stop making things up. The UC system is not crumbling and it is not only affordable for the rich. The majority of students in the UC system are all from the middle class. The UC system will continue to be the best in the nation and lead in research and education. How is raising tuition costs going to make it crumble?

    They raised tuition costs of course they are going to protest. who likes to pay more? They are college students of course they are going to protest!

    The state is broke. That is not anyone's fault but the people in power (who by the way are not libertarians or conservatives but liberals. Quite opposite of what the article states). I agree what they need to do is cut all the crap programs that allow people to just stay at home and collect welfare checks.
     
  7. SunsRocketsfan

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    okay I just went back and read the article. The article actually doesn't mention anything about conservatives or libertarians it was your commentary in the beginning that is so off based.

    I agree if you dont want to cut education funding stop the SPENDING and WASTE in other areas. Ask the state leaders to stop passing social programs. The state is facing a 20 billion deficit and that is not due to rich people getting a tax break which they are not. As mentioned earlier california already has the highest tax burden of any state. We pay the highest corporate, income, sales taxes of any state. You name the tax and California is right up there on top. If you tax any more rich people they simply will choose not to live here which in turns takes away job creation. Since they are the ones creating jobs for everyone else.
     
  8. Steve_Francis_rules

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    There is evidence that the UC system is starting to crumble. Many of the young faculty across the UC system are leaving the state because of the budget cuts. This will continue to hurt the system long term as those faculty start bringing research grant money into other institutions.

    As for liberals always being in control and making all the mistakes... there have been 12 years since 1967 in which the governor of California was a Democrat.

    By the way, I'll just repeat what you obviously missed... real estate taxes are taxes, too.
     
  9. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    The biggest reason for the massive budget shortfall out here in California is the 2/3's budget rule. CA requires a two-thirds vote in the legislature to pass a budget. So you have dumbass lawmakers holding up a budget unless their stupid provisions are included.
     
  10. SunsRocketsfan

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    wow so california gets one tiny break on real estate taxes. But with out of control real estate prices 1% still is a lot. Does prop 13 have its issues? Yes but that is not even close to the cause of the state budget crisis.

    Ask anyone.. Ask the Democrats. Everyone will describe and label California as a blue state. Outside of maybe San Diego and Orange County and some really rural towns in central Cali. The state is all blue!! You really can't get more liberal than California. Look at state programs and where money is spent. We are the model for a liberal state and unfortunately it isnt working is it?

    When people think of California they think of Democrats and Liberals. You think of Texas you think of conservatives and Republicans. Hmm one state has a huge surplus and the other one has a huge deficit. Now I am not saying one party is to blame since it's on all the leaders that are and were in charge which were from both sides.

    As for the UC system it will not crumble. They still have some of the worlds best professors and people in the state will continue to go to the UC systems. In fact there are more students enrolled in the UC System now than anytime in history. You are also still only paying 1/3 of the cost of a private school.
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    Partly true - the system is having problems. But that's because the state is in a huge recession and their tax revenues dropped 27% while they have to maintain a balanced budget. If you have ideas on how to fix this problem, feel free to share. But given all the various propositions that make it extremely difficult to raise taxes or cut programs, there are limits on what the state can do. Combine that with the fact that education is an enormous expenditure for the state, the budget really can't be balanced without cutting education spending.

    I'm not sure the relevance of this. Regardless of where the taxes come from, California pays amongst the highest total percentage of their annual income in state taxes - income, property, sales, etc.
     
  12. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    The best idea to solve California's budget issue is for that state to end it's silly attempt at being a bastion of conservatism. For far too long they have been the advocate of the right and the darling of the Disciples of Reagan. The time has come for California to adopt liberal policies and be extension for America to realize that the policies of Reagan and the extreme right have failed in California and will fail in the broader United States.
     
  13. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Also, 2/3 to raise taxes such as property taxes. Prop 13, which Reagan was a big supporter of. It was not liberals and supporters of government who did this. Hint: it was conservatives, libertarians and government haters.

    It does not inform people to just report California is going broke and must raise tuition 30 plus percent in a vacuum. Anyone wonder why?

    I stand by my analysis. This is the result of conservative economic or at least political policy choices.

    Now for history folks.

    from wikipedia on proposition 13.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...0&search=Proposition+13&fulltext=Search&ns0=1

    Proposition 13 (officially titled the People's Initiative to Limit Property Taxation) was an amendment of the Constitution of California enacted in 1978, by means of the initiative process. It was approved by California voters on June 6, 1978. It was upheld as constitutional by the United States Supreme Court in the case of Nordlinger v. Hahn, 505 U.S. 1 (1992). Proposition 13 is embodied in Article 13A of the Constitution of the State of California[1].

    The most significant portion of the act is the first paragraph, which capped real estate taxes:

    Section 1. (a) The maximum amount of any ad valorem tax on real property shall not exceed One percent (1%) of the full cash value of such property. The one percent (1%) tax to be collected by the counties and apportioned according to law to the districts within the counties.

    The proposition's passage resulted in a cap on property tax rates in the state, reducing them by an average of 57%. In addition to lowering property taxes, the initiative also contained language requiring a two-thirds majority in both legislative houses for future increases in all state tax rates or amounts of revenue collected,

    Also from wikipedia.com

    Howard Jarvis (section Political career and Proposition 13) He was an anti-tax activist responsible for passage of California's Proposition 13 in 1978. Early life and education: Jarvis was born in ...

    QID
     
  14. SunsRocketsfan

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    Please explain to me how California is the bastion of conservatism. I believe conservatives and Regan wanted lower taxes and smaller and less Govt intervention in our lives. California is the exact opposite of all that!!!!

    As mentioned earlier California has the highest taxes of any state in the Country. How is that being conservative?? California has the most social programs also!! Please know what you are talking about before posting such ridiculous posts.

    Thanks
     
  15. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Well it is relevant in a real world politcal sense. Many folks who own real estate in Cal are very rich compared to many other folks. It is conservative (in the current use of the word in American politics) to eliminate progressive taxation and shift the burden to the middle and lower class. Combined with the 2/3 requriement to reaise taxes it makes it very hard to raise additional revenues. Conservatives wanted this and the chickens are coming home to roost especially when you have economic problems like we have now.

    I know Reagan was a smiley likeable guy and all, but...




    OK, Major I am just razzing you. I know you are that dumb or immoral.
     
  16. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    Now Paul Krugman today is talking about GOP and conservative economics as he frequently does.

    Hey vote GOP on guns, god, gays, etc. if you must, but know that almost eveyone on this bbs is voting against their economic interest to do so.

    from today's NYT

    **********
    Consider, in particular, the position that Mr. Kyl has taken on a proposed bill that would extend unemployment benefits and health insurance subsidies for the jobless for the rest of the year. Republicans will block that bill, said Mr. Kyl, unless they get a “path forward fairly soon” on the estate tax.

    Now, the House has already passed a bill that, by exempting the assets of couples up to $7 million, would leave 99.75 percent of estates tax-free. But that doesn’t seem to be enough for Mr. Kyl; he’s willing to hold up desperately needed aid to the unemployed on behalf of the remaining 0.25 percent. That’s a very clear statement of priorities.
     
  17. SunsRocketsfan

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    wow.. this whole thing is laughable. I can't believe I am hearing people say California is conservative and has conservative policies.. I WISH!!

    As stated earlier California already has the HIGHEST tax burden of any STATE in the COUNTRY!! How hard is that to understand?? Why do you keep bringing up the property tax??? That is just one tax. The combine tax burden of California is the HIGHEST. Do I need to keep repeating that?

    Also I find it hilarious that you keep bringing up Prop 13. GUESS WHAT????? Guess who was the Governor when Prop 13 passed? and guess who eventually supported it??!?
    The only democrat Governor in California for quite awhile was a huge supporter of it!! Why its Jerry Brown who is currently running for Governor AGAIN.

    Jerry Brown Opposed Prop. 13 before he was for it: Tax surpluses that accumulated during Brown's administration led to the voter revolt that produced 1978's property-tax-cutting Proposition 13. Brown opposed Prop. 13 when it was proposed. (After it passed, he called himself a "born-again tax cutter.") Even the hint of opposition to Prop. 13 is political uranium in California.

    So stop trying to make this a conservative vs liberal or republican vs democrat thing. The state is a mess and there is a huge deficit due to people recently in charge. California was one of the most prosperous and wealthy states when Regan was in charge. Now we have way too many liberal/social programs. THat is what is bankrupting the state.

    Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2010/03/01/MNV11C9589.DTL#ixzz0hLGzKwbC


    ------
    Questions for Jerry Brown
    By Peter Schrag

    Now that you’re officially running—running as you said last week, as a candidate of experience with “in-depth knowledge of how government and Sacramento politics actually function” -- and since most voters are probably too young to remember your prior time as governor (1975-83), here’s a few questions that they might like addressed and that you, in order to re-introduce yourself, might like to answer. .

    (1). Proposition 13, which sharply reduced and capped property taxes and shifted a large share of control from local governments to the state, was passed near the end of your first term. You first strongly opposed the initiative, and then endorsed it to the point where some people called you “Jerry Jarvis” after Howard Jarvis, its chief sponsor. Recently you said that messing with it now would be “a big fat loser.” But that’s a political judgment. Looking at its impact on the state, has it been an asset or a liability? Does it need amendment or repeal? Please explain.

    (2) In your announcement the other day, you listed as one of your “governing principles” the need to “downsize state government…and return decisions and authority to the cities, to the counties and to local schools.” How would you do that without revising Proposition 13?

    (3) Among the common explanations for the passage of Proposition 13 was the inability of the legislature and governor (you) to agree on measures that would have eased the pressure of escalating property taxes on homeowners in the late 1970s. You later seemed to acknowledge that you didn’t have the attention span to work out a solution. Others said you wanted to preserve a large state surplus, which might have been used to offset some of those tax burdens, in order to bolster your forthcoming campaign for president. What was the real story?

    (4). In your campaign announcement last week, you spoke about how you reduced Californians’ taxes. But wasn’t that reduction almost entirely due to Proposition 13, which, as already noted, you strongly opposed before it passed?
     
  18. Major

    Major Member

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    Raising rates doesn't solve California's problems, though. They already have an extremely overall high tax burden - but their needs are even higher due to all the services the government provides. Their problem is two fold:

    1. A huge lack of revenues for the short-term combined with a need for a balanced budget.

    2. A bunch of propositions that limited both tax hikes (as you noted) and service cuts. That means the cuts have to come from a smaller piece of the pie that doesn't have those limits - in particular, education.

    Both Prop 13 and the propositions limiting service cuts were voted on by the people - a majority of whom lean left. Even the conservatives in office in California (Arnold, for example) are extremely moderate. This is not a result of political philosophy - it's a result of California putting everything to a popular vote. In isolation, limiting tax raises sounds good. In isolation, limiting service cuts sounds good. Together, it's a recipe for disaster, and that's what we're seeing. They can't raise revenues and they can't cut most services - so they are stuck cutting the services that can legally be cut.
     
  19. Baqui99

    Baqui99 Contributing Member

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    Yep, basically 2/3 vote to do anything. What people don't realize is that the entire Central Valley, places like Stockton, Modesto, and Fresno, are staunch conservative. Those Reagan laws are biting CA in the ass from both ends. From the free spenders in the state as well as from the no additional tax folks on the far right. It's a perfect storm of partisan politics.
     
  20. SunsRocketsfan

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    Come on people please do some research before making ridiculous claims. I am not even trying to blame one party or another for the political mess California is in. But the state has been in the democrats hands since the 1970's. Do you realize the population size of the Central Valley? Just San Francisco alone outnumbers the population of the central valley by several fold. Here is how California's state legislature is broken down. I can't believe I am seeing liberals blame conservatives for California's problems when they are not even in charge or have much say in the Govt at all. That is just preposterous!!

    Also please stop using talking points. How are Regan's policies biting California in the ass from both ends?? Please name a specific policy and show evidence on how it is biting California in the ass on both ends???

    Below are some facts for you so maybe you can learn a thing or two about California's state legislature and who has been in power.

    ------------
    The California State Legislature currently has a Democratic majority, with the Senate consisting of 25 Democrats and 15 Republicans; and the Assembly having 49 Democrats, 29 Republicans, 1 Independent, and 1 vacancy. Except for the period from 1995 to 1996, the Assembly has been in Democratic hands since the 1970 election (even while the governor's office has gone back and forth between Republicans and Democrats). The Senate has been in Democratic hands continuously since 1970.
    ----------------
     

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