California Colleges Mull Return of Affirmative Action

Not all business majors are the same. Maybe you'd learn about negotiation if you were a marketing major and took sales classes. But if you aren't going into sales, there really is no point to lean that.

Plus, if you don't already have a certain personality, you won't be successful in sales no matter how many classes you take. I don't even know why you'd think that if you have a business degree.

I don't know why you are putting business under this umbrella where you think every business major learns every aspect of business.

And I understand the value if diversity... when it is relevant. In most college classes, it isn't relevant. The value of it is overstated by some in this thread.

 

Diversity isn't just about discussing cultures. It would about sharing ideas in things like Math, Science, Business, related to those classes. The different cultures might have different ways of approaching problems and discussing that would benefit all students even though the topic wasn't cultures particularly.

So if diversity increases cognitive thinking, problem solving, and leadership, for which major is that not a positive?

If it helps develop those in college student I would think it would be a positive no matter what major you're in or what classes you take.

 

Back in the 60's I'm sure there were plenty of whites who felt the same way that you do about dropping white enrollment in the UC system when Asians began taking their slots.

 

Except in almost all aspects of business things like how to negotiate, present and discuss are important. I run a small architecture business and I use those skills frequently even when I'm not marketing. I have to negotiate all the time with contractors and clients. I have to run project meetings and make sure they go smoothly. This just seems like such basic stuff that we covered these things in my high school business class.

Again though you are claiming that your education was pretty much worthless so I don't see why this even bothers you.

 

I think you're reaching here. At the college level, how can cultural diversity lead to different ways of approaching problems in math or science? If anything, that'd be a hallmark of intellect, not cultural diversity.

Once again, you're misapplying the results of the study you cited. That study was conducted on classes that had student dialogue and complex classroom discussion. That's why a culturally diverse student population was beneficial.

However, this does not mean that a culturally diverse student population would be beneficial for all classes (which is what you're implying) since many majors don't incorporate student dialogue and complex classroom discussion into their curriculum.

 

This is yet another example of how troubling I find the education you got to be. Negotiation is actually a skill that can be taught. There are tactics and tips. Most schools teach that and most businesses and business associations offer seminars on that. Apparently you never go that so I can see why you feel that way.

From what you are describing of your education it makes sense why you feel this way.

 

I don't know if you are Chinese but there is a term in Chinese called Guan Xi "关系" That loosely translates to "networking". The principle of Guan Xi is exactly what you describe up there. It has to do with learning and association with others who you might do business with on a personal basis and that is exactly what being around people of diverse backgrounds trains you in.

First off no body is controlling Asian Americans like lab rats or curbing their college admittance rate. Well performing Asian Americans will still be able to get into college. They might not always get into the college they want but there are no guarantees for getting into the college of your choice. If that was the case then almost all of us would be going to Harvard.

 

Probably some measure of both - the same way asians are treated today actually

 

Which business schools offer classes on negotiation?

I'm sorry you find my education troubling. If it's any consolation, I find your education to be troubling as well.

No offense, but what I said is a fact, not an opinion. If you can't see that, maybe you should spend less time worrying about my education and more time worrying about your own.

 

Not really. I used a very simple example to show multiple ways of solving something as simple as 6x2. There is often more than one way to solve a problem correctly. There might only be one right answer with many ways to reach that answer.

The results were the ones I mentioned. Students had an increase in cognitive ability, leadership, problem solving etc. If those are the results then they are applicable to to all majors.

Yes, cognitive ability, problem solving, etc. would help with any classroom or major.

 

Ok, let's look at that example. Regardless of culture, all the student have the same understanding of numbers and their limitations. So if students are transposing the numbers to look for different solutions, then that's a hallmark of intellect, not cultural diversity.

Absolutely wrong.

 

Which majors don't use cognitive skills? Which majors and classes don't use problem solving? In which major are improved leadership skills not a bonus?

Because you don't see how the different approach from different cultures isn't a boon doesn't mean that professionals who design their courses are under the same limitations when looking at diversity that you are.

 

All majors use cognitive skills and problem solving. However, that's not what you've been arguing.

You've been arguing that cultural diversity among students leads to improved cognitive skills/problem solving/leadership. To support your argument, you cited studies that conducted research on classes that utilized student discussion and complex classroom dialogue.

Although many college majors don't utilize student discussion and complex classroom dialogue in their curriculum, you're inappropriately applying the results of the studies to all college majors.

That's the major flaw in your argument.

 

If you look at the elite UC numbers pre- and post-prop 209, the most dramatic numeric fluctuations happened between white and asian students, which suggests that it was mostly white students "displacing" asian students rather than other URMs. If you think about it, it's really common sense. Given the large number of Asians applying to elite universities, the group that can curb their enrollment numbers most significantly are white students, who are the majority population at most of these schools. Thus, for Asians in California, it may not have been prop 209 that was most helpful in terms of admission chances, but the resultant scrapping of the legacy system in the UCs.

Though I personally find it difficult to support AA as a concept from a logical perspective, I agree with you that the fact that AA is oftentimes used to insulate white students from competition with Asian students to be quite hypocritical. If there were a way to mitigate this issue while also largely preserving AA for URMs, I could probably be convinced to support it. However, as the state of discourse around AA is now, I think it will be difficult to say the least.

On a side note, SCA-5 has been tabled for revision recently due to public backlash, so it probably won't come up again for a while.

 

Do you have links to these studies? I would like to read them.

 

Let's see a quick glance on google shows Harvard, Cal, Columbia, U of Chicago and etc.

So we have gotten to the I am rubber you are glue, whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you phase.

Well my education was long over and even though I went to a great school I still think there was stuff they could've done better, diversity is not one of them.

Seriously though you say that your school didn't teach you negotiation nor does it emphasize cognitive thinking and complex discussions and you don't see a problem with that? You honestly don't see the value to those skills in business?

 

I looked up the first name, Harvard. The only negotiation classes I found were offered through their Executive Education Program, and they only last a few days. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they don't seem to be credited classes, and as such, they wouldn't contribute towards a degree.

However, Columbia does offer a master's degree in negotiation and conflict resolution.

It looks like some colleges think it's a topic that can be addressed in a few days while others think it's worthy of an entire program.

Is it really your contention that the only way to emphasize cognitive thinking is through diversity?

Of course there's value in cognitive thinking and negotiation skills. When did I say anything to the contrary?

Regarding negotiation, I'm ok with my school not offering it. I view it more as a natural ability as opposed to something that can be taught.

 

I posted them in this thread already. There are way more than what I posted though. What I posted was just a start.