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Cade/Mobley/Green fits moving forward

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by sydmill, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    I mentioned that exact package to dump him .... but I don't know if two picks that aren't likely to convey any time soon are enough to get a team to take the ~$70 million ($47.3m in the final year) that would remain on his contract at next years deadline.

    Another problem is salary matching .... Any team over the cap would have to send out $36,925,700 ($120%+/- 100k = $41,254,920) for matching purposes.

    What are you taking back in this exchange ....


    More I think about this , the more I believe we're stuck with Wall for the duration of next year.

    The following deadline when he becomes an expiring contract you have "good options" in regards to that contract , trading it for a high value player or assets depending upon the teams situation or simply letting it expire and going into that FA period with ~$70m coming off your books in Wall / EG , assuming EG hasn't been moved at that point.
     
  2. Reeko

    Reeko Member
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    Kuminga
     
  3. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    That's an easy answer .....

    You win championships in this league with great players .... not pretty good ones. Pretty good ones keep you competitive.


    If the goal is winning championships you go for the highest upside.


    If the team is content with simply being "competitive" you take the high floor player.
     
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  4. DCkid

    DCkid Contributing Member

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    Seriously. I'm not even going to waste my (very limited) brainpower on this until about 9 pm, July 29.
     
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  5. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    I posted earlier a trade proposal of Wall + Det & Wash to LAC for Rondo, Bev, and Morris. That is one of the few teams I could see being interested in adding Wall. Wall - PG - Kawhi - Ibaka - Zubac is a team that could threaten if everybody stays healthy. Some remote picks might interest them as they probably have another 3 or 4 years as a contending team. Just an idea.

    The Rockets could always add additional draft capital (either one of their own, a pick or picks acquired by trading Gordon or House, or just by routing Morris or Rondo elsewhere for draft picks that go to LAC).
     
    #85 sydmill, Apr 22, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  6. fadeaway

    fadeaway Contributing Member

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    Yeah, for whatever reasons, Embiid was considered the risky pick while Parker was the high-floor "safe" pick. Obviously, if there was a redo, there is no way Parker would go that high again, and he ended up a below-average player overall, in my opinion.

    It is just one example throughout history. I guess my view is that even with the perceived "safe" guys, there are no guarantees, so I personally wouldn't use that as a criteria to justify picking any given player over another. Might as well go for upside.
     
  7. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    This isn't thread worthy but just a draft thought I had: Nikola Jokic was a second round pick and now 7 years later he is maybe the MVP. To me, Luka Garza has that potential, such an active, skilled and enthusiastic big man. He's projecting as a second rounder (deja vu) so you could probably get him with one of the 20's. I think he's at worst a 10 year career player. Here is an article that says everything about him that is wrong but it still ends up pretty positive. https://www.si.com/college/2021/03/22/luka-garza-nba-future-iowa-march-madness-daily-cover

    I watched Jokic just push us around like rag dolls the other night, just dominate the game with size. It could be nice to have a player to come off the bench and counter that. Your 20's picks are more than likely bench players and he could contribute as something different.

    OK, back to the top 5 (I like Mobley, visions of Kevin Durant)
     
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  8. mightybosstone

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    True, but I also don't think you win championships in this league with one player. How many teams have won titles with a single star player on the roster in the history of the NBA? Less than a handful. And even if you draft the next all-time great in this draft, a core of that guy, Wood, Tate and KPJ is not likely winning a title. The Rockets are a terrible basketball team. They need multiple All-Stars before they're anywhere close to being contenders again.

    If you nail this pick and get a future star, you're one piece closer to contention. If you whiff, you've wasted a top 4 pick in a super talented draft and set the franchise back that much further. Also, even if you think Suggs' ceiling isn't as high, I still think it's pretty damn high. The comps we're seeing for him are guys like Murray, Roy, DWill, Billups, Lowry, etc. Those guys are/were damn good basketball players that were key pieces of legitimate contenders. The Rockets should be thrilled if they end up drafting a player like that.
     
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  9. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    It is certainly possible that I am wrong here but I dont think the Rockets are as far away as many on here do. If Cade or Mobley or Green are obtained and live up to their billing then the Rockets have that "best player on a good team" guy. Now, obviously, that isnt next season (Jordan wasnt Jordan in year 1. neither was Kobe or Lebron for that matter). But if Cade/Mobley/Green is that "Batman" guy then that likely puts KPJ as Robin. An offseason improving his shot and it isnt hard to see KPJ as a 20/6/6 type guy. Thats solid for your second best player. If Wood, putting up 20/10, is your third best player you're doing well talent wise. At that point all you need is role players. As of now, Tate, KMart and Brooks look like potential role players that fit. But even if they don't the Rockets have 5 or 6 additional first round picks in the next 2 years to add those guys. One of those guys is likely to have star potential or being a foundational piece It is easy to see a scenario where the Rockets have an up and coming talented squad (most all of whom are under contract for a while) by the end of the '22-'23 season. And that is without acquiring anything from trading Wall or Gordon. There are several ifs there but not so many as to laugh off this potential outcome I dont think.
     
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  10. mightybosstone

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    I'm still pretty hesitant to assume that KPJ and Wood are going to be All-Star caliber players and/or future cornerstone pieces for this rebuild. I like both guys a lot, but they both have pretty big red flags. Porter's game is fun to watch and you see the potential there, but he's still insanely inefficient, an inconsistent perimeter shooter and a poor defender, and that's before you start discussing the off-the-court stuff. Wood has a stellar all-around offensive game and is a quality rebounder and shot blocker, but he's suspect on defense, has injury concerns and is going to be 26 next season.

    Wood is at least at borderline All-Star level already, but I'm not sure just yet he's the kind of player you necessarily want to build your franchise around. I need more convincing that he's not just a good stats/bad team guy. And KPJ has a long, long way to go before I'm ready to consider him a franchise cornerstone for a playoff squad. It's very easy to look at the potential of these two guys and assume they're two pieces of a future rebuild, but let's not forget they're getting plenty of playing time right now and losing a ton of basketball games.
     
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  11. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    Certainly an interesting idea .... and the math does work out as they combine for just over $37m for next season and Walls contract requires $36,925,700 in outgoing salary to a team operating over the cap.

    Thing is , I'm not so sure I'd be giving up assets / picks just to dump Wall (or EG) contract and get scraps in return just to create playing time for the kids when I can accomplish that by DNP-CD or simply limiting his minutes - he already isn't playing back to backs.

    As for trading EG , I think he's in much the same situation as Wall .... a negative asset currently. He hasn't been healthy for two seasons now , probably takes a pick to unload his deal.


    Because this team is bad .... I think you have to be in asset collection mode , not asset liquidation mode. You have time and time turns that negative asset of Wall's contract to a positive asset just one year beyond your proposed trade.

    In the mean time you continue to churn the roster looking for diamonds in the rough and accumulating as many early draft picks and as much talent as possible for the moment you can add that star via free agency or trade.
     
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  12. thekad

    thekad Member

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    Doubtful the Clippers are dumb enough to take Wall, but if the Rockets get Cade they should definitely think about using an asset or two to dump Wall’s albatross. Something like:

    Wall/Was 1st/Chi 2nds to the Clips
    Beverley to the Bulls
    Aminu/Kennard/Rondo to the Rockets

    KPJ/Augustin
    Cade/EG
    Tate/Kennard
    KMJ
    Wood/Wilson

    +whatever assets you can get for House, Rondo and Bradley

    That’s another lottery team with the potential to be big players in a good FA class.
     
  13. MaxRider

    MaxRider Member

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    Was Parker rated that high? I thought he was tweener at that time. Too small for PF and too slow for SF.
     
  14. groovemachine

    groovemachine Member

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    Just because they look alike doesn't mean he'll become a Jokic caliber big. :rolleyes: It would be a stretch to take him late first, but as an undrafted rookie I'd invite him to summer league for certain.
     
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  15. fadeaway

    fadeaway Contributing Member

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    He went second overall.
     
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  16. MaxRider

    MaxRider Member

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    For some reason I thought Embiid was drafted #4. Looking back at the mock draft so Embiid and Wiggins were pretty much 1 and 2. Parker was 3.
     
  17. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    Lot of prospects there. I would consider taking Bassey and Hyland in the first round. Really like Lewis, Jones and Pons as wing defenders in the 2nd. Edwards and Joe Wieskamp are 2 of my favorite second round prospects as shooters coming off the bench. Some of the UDFA you listed will almost certainly be drafted (specifially Bagley who I think ends up late first). I am just as excited by the depth of this draft as I am the franchise talent at the top. I think the Rockets could come away with multiple guys who could be part of the eventual turn around in this draft.
     
  18. sydmill

    sydmill Member

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    I hope that the Rockets view Wood as more of a complimentary piece than a guy you build around. As I said he is perfect as that third guy in a big three a la Chris Bosh (comparing their roles more than their talent). I do think Wood kind of is what he is. I am hoping for 5 or 6 more seasons at an efficient 20/10 at best. KPJ on the other hand is far from a finished product. I think/hope we are seeing his floor right now. If that is the case then I think my 20/6/6 aspiration for him is possible if not probable. Maybe not next year but I think soon.

    The thing that I believe we all have to keep in mind is that this draft is the Rockets first crack at franchise talent. While I think it is the most important given the talent that is available at the top and the fact that I suspect ownership will try and produce a better record moving forward, the team will still be bad enough to procure decent talent from the draft next season for sure. And they will have cap space some day to use free agency as well.
     

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