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CA Supreme Court Rules Illegal Immigrants can Have In-State Tuition

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rocketsjudoka, Nov 15, 2010.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    You brought up the argument about people not paying taxes. I pointed out that even all CA residents even those who don't pay taxes get in state tuition. You said talked about being in the system, by which it sounds like you are talking the US immigration system . I pointed out that CA residency is different than US legal immigration status and CA.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Except in CA the taxes aren't paying enough at the moment and the state is in a huge hole while the UC and Cal State system are facing big cutbacks. Believe me my alumni letters are getting pretty desperate about it. Expanding in state tuition reduces the amount of money the universities can take in and at a time of cutbacks I am not sure they can afford it without cutting back what is the best public university system.
     
  3. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Wait wait wait. I misunderstood you - you're saying you can be a legal resident of CA while being in the country illegally? /skeptical
     
  4. geeimsobored

    geeimsobored Contributing Member

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    This happened in Texas in 2003 when Rick Perry decided to solve the deficit by deregulating state tuition. And within 1 year tuition went up 300% yet no one gave a damn (or even cares now for that matter).

    Higher tuition is sadly a reality, at least California is getting some media attention for their tuition problems. People in Texas dont even realize that it happened here already.
     
  5. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Contributing Member

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    Of course, the response is -- and I think it's a legitimate one -- that if we need to make sacrifices to accomodate illegal aliens for our own enlightened self-interest, then we need to take border security more seriously and cut-off the flow of illegal immigrants into the country in the first place. If illegals couldn't get in in the first place, this question wouldn't exist. (Easier said than done, I know.)
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I am not an immigration lawyer but my understanding is that yes you can as the state doesn't enforce federal immigration laws (in fact the sanctuary cities block the enforcement of federal immigration laws) and there is nothing preventing someone here illegally to qualify for CA residency, get a drivers' license file, file state taxes and etc..
     
  7. Major

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    To go further on this, remember there was also a thread a few weeks back about illegal aliens being able to vote in local elections in some places. Immigration status is entirely a federal thing - both enforcement and using it as a required qualification for various things. Some states use that as well, but it's not required and many don't.
     
  8. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    I am with you. The illegal immigration issue is a wider a problem related to social-economics, but obviously border is the place to start. Once they are in the border, it becomes another issue such that how to incorporate them into our economy. Extradicating every single illegal immigrant isn't possible and we are not prepared to go that far. We could have very harsh laws to deny them every opportunity, but as a nation of immigrants this is not within our traditions. I think the CA ruling does strike a good balance.
     
  9. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    CA residency is largely for tax and tuition purposes.
     
  10. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    That's crazy. I'm not even sure how to respond to that.
     
  11. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    But on the other hand if these kids are good enough to get into Cal state or UC and completed 3 year high school in the US, we should give them an opportunity. They are as every bit of this country's future as other bright US kids.
     
  12. SunsRocketsfan

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    Yup I think I read some thing about that in the Union Tribune once. Did a quick google search and here is more about "sanctuary cities"

    -------------
    Just curious which UC did you attend?
     
  13. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    He is a bear.
    And I was a bruin.
     
  14. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    In that case should a student from NY state who gets into CAL also get in state tuition? Why decide to have in state and out of state to begin with since an out of state student also completed 3 years of high school and may also settle in CA and contribute?

    I understand and fully support the right of CA to decide who gets the in state tuition but CA is in a very bad economic position right now and the universities are suffering from that. To continue to maintain the high standards of UC they cannot afford to get a drop from revenue. In fact to continue to survive as is they might not be able to afford a drop in revenue. I agree there is a long term benefit in educating as many as possible as affordably as possibly but CA is in a crisis right now and until that crisis passes I am not sure now is the time to cut revenue.
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    CAL.

    GO BEARS!
     
  16. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    I'm not saying its a good or bad thing just what my understanding is of the situation. As I said I think the ruling is correct based on CA law and the federalist structure. I have problem though with the policy based on the economics where as you are saying you have a problem with the policy based principle.
     
  17. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Contributing Member

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    Right, I never argued that.

    Those two aspects are linked.
     
  18. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    If they complete 3 year high school in CA, yes. The CA law is not written to award CA residents. If a kid finishes high school in CA and goes on to UC or Cal State, it is very likely the kid is making CA his home. It benefits CA to make sure we allocate education resources to those likely contribute to CA economy in the future and we want them to stay.
    Now, your argument that giving tuition breaks to those kids hurt UC and Cal state system is not all that convincing. First, UC and Cal state do not go all out of their way to recruit those kids b/c of this program. This is not an affirmative action thing. If the kid is good enough to get into UC or Cal state, he/she gets a little bit tuition break from the State regardless of citizenship as long as he has been in the state long enough to indicate he is going to stay. So I don't think UC or Cal state is hurt if education is the ultimate objective. Second, I still have a substantial tie w/ UCLA. Particularly I am very much involved in its effort to commercialize some of its IP assets. UC is nowhere near where it should be as a world class institute, compared whit Standford or some schools on the east coast. The 900 million taken away could somewhat be made up if UC gears up in those efforts.
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
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    Except there is no guarantee that someone who was a CA resident will stay in CA after getting their degree or that someone from out of state won't stay. Many of my friends who went to Cal who grew up in CA now live out of state and vice versa.
    I never said this was affirmative action I said this was a matter of UC getting a cut in its revenue. Expanding the eligibility for in state will cost the UC and Cal State system revenue. Granted there are other ways to make up that revenue like commercialize assets but given the whole that the state is there is a lot that needs to be done to just maintain where the system is at now.
     
  20. YallMean

    YallMean Member

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    What's difference between in-state and out-of-state tuition. I know it's around 10k/year for UC. Cal state is probably in the same neighborhood.
    So you are saying the displacement of out-of-state students who are willing to pay for higher out-of-state tuition by the in-state kids w/o status is hurting UC and Cal state?
    Again, I don't think UC or Cal state is hurting. They can increase tuition and other expenses to make ends meet. Now there might be an argument the in-state residents are hurt, but the significance of that effect, balancing against long term benefits, is the question. I trust legislators up in Sac on this one b/c they are equipped to do this kind of analysis, unless you are cynical that this is another Democrat's agenda.
    I think there is a reasonable basis for the CA law. Are out-of-state kids still attracted to UC or Cal state given the 50k some tuition/year? I doubt it. So your displacement theory is flawed. In my view, the law essentially give scholarships to good quality in-state kids w/o status to displace lower quality out-of-state/ in-state kids.
     

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