Over and over again, you keep comparing him to all-star SGs. You are absolutely nuts, if you think he will even come close to be voted into the all-star game.
Why? I guess Daryl Morey is nuts according to you as well. Daryl Morey said he has all star potential, in fact he said he was the most NBA ready rookie he has ever had, why do you disagree with Daryl Morey? Kevin Martin light? Ok, is that an NBA starter? Or just an off the bench guy? DD
At least he can do what Horry did for us, the Lakers and the Spurs. Providing clutch 3 pt. shooting and off ball movement coming off the bench.
Martin is a weak willed player who pads stats when they mean nothing and will miss 25 games per season. I think if chase was the starting sg next yr, he would avg 17 ppg, shoot 45% fg and 40% 3pt and provide better effort and defense than martin. Yeah, u heard me.
Good article on Chase Morey's quotes in bold. Thursday, March 4, 2010 at 12:02 a.m. La Costa Canyon alum Chase Budinger (right) has found his place in the NBA as a rookie, coming off the bench for the Houston Rockets. About 20 family members and friends gathered at Chase Budinger’s Encinitas home last June for an NBA draft party. The catered menu included mini-burgers, bacon-wrapped shrimp and steak skewers. Scuttlebutt had Budinger, the former La Costa Canyon High star, going anywhere from the middle to the end of the first round. The first round came and went. Budinger was still on the board. The food, and the mood, turned cold. “There was like a question over everyone’s head,” Budinger said. “A sorrowful feeling.” Chase’s thoughts? “I was kind of shocked.” Finally, with the 44th selection, Budinger was selected by the Detroit Pistons, then immediately was dealt to the Houston Rockets. Fast forward eight months. The 6-foot-7, strawberry-blond Budinger is a steady contributor for the Rockets, coming off the bench to average 8.6 points and 2.9 rebounds a game. “He’s been better than anyone thought or he wouldn’t have been drafted that low,” said Houston General Manager Daryl Morey. “He’s even better than we thought.” Normally the polite, we-before-me type, Budinger almost bristles in a told-you-so fashion when discussing his rookie season. “I think I proved a lot of people wrong with what they were saying about me,” he said by phone recently. “I showed I can play in this league, and I’ll play in this league for a long time.” The rap on the 218-pound Budinger coming out of Arizona was that he was soft. That while he could run the floor and hit the open jumper, that he would shy away from the physical stuff. “They said I couldn’t handle the physical pounding, that I wasn’t physically ready for the league,” recalled Budinger. “Things that I knew were wrong. The only way I could show ’em was to prove ’em wrong.” Budinger used the draft slight as motivation. He spent a little more time in the weight room, a little more time in the gym. He ate healthier. Be it a GM waxing hyperbole or Morey’s true feelings, he almost gushes about Budinger. Discussing Budinger’s ceiling, Morey said, “It’s really hard to know where it might stop, he’s so gifted.” Noting that he’s been in the NBA since 2003, Morey called Budinger “the most ready-to-play rookie I’ve ever had. He’s really got a complete game. His ability to pass, shoot, move without the ball, handle the ball, make the right reads. He’s really skilled offensively.” Turning objective, Morey admits Budinger’s defense can use some polishing and, “I think he needs to get stronger around the rim, finishing through contact.” Budinger sounded like an appreciative 21-year-old rookie when asked what’s the coolest thing about playing in the NBA. “The coolest thing is basketball is our job,” he said. “That we’re making money off something we love, something I would do for free.” He’s being handsomely compensated, earning $725,000 his rookie season, according to multiple sources. He has not splurged since striking it rich. He’s renting an apartment in Houston and still drives the 2004 Chevy Tahoe he tooled about his senior year at LCC. He does have his eye on a Mercedes CLS 550. Base price: $72,400. The toughest thing about the NBA, he said, is the travel and 82-game grind. He lost an iPod in Charlotte. Or was it Oakland? “I have no idea,” he said. After dinner in Portland he came back to what he thought was his room, slid in the key, couldn’t get in and returned to the lobby to find out his correct room number. More than once he admits to waking up and asking, “Where are we?” To prepare himself for the season’s grind, Budinger tries to nap daily, dips his body in cold tubs after workouts, stretches after practice and lifts weights at least twice a week. Budinger swings between small forward and big guard. He’s averaging 20.5 minutes a game playing behind veterans Shane Battier and Trevor Ariza. His career high is 19 points. His best game came against Detroit when he totaled 16 points, 12 rebounds and five assists. “A little bit of everything,” Budinger said. “That’s what I’m known for.” Morey believes Budinger will be a starter one day. “But it’s not something we like to force,” he said. Shortly after acquiring Budinger, Morey discovered just how admired he is in San Diego County. A fan mailed the GM high school game tape of Budinger, along with a note. “He’s great,” the fan wrote. “You guys play him right away.” Said Morey, “The person was right on.”
1. We have Martin, the original. 2. He doesn't seem to break out, improve dramatically from college 3. How much time does it take him to become that player I mentioned eventually? He's without a doubt a good prospect. Right now he is a bench guy. He could become a starter. But with our defensive liabilities in the starting line up I don't see him starting soon.OUR PRIORITY is get big man help for YAO. In case YAO is done somebody on allstar level is needed to get us over the hump. Conclusion One one hand I think we should keep him to see his development. BUT on the other hand why not develop big men? There is a big man I stated, Monroe, and actually a lot of those guys, we could use. Cousins.....Favors...We still got Hakeem to work with them they will be in good hands. Houston is known for bringing out big men and trading for SG/SFs. Why mess with the tradition
I'm not sure what Eddie Griffin has to do with this, DD. It's like I told you before -- did you stop dating girls after the first one broke your heart? Why are you so scared of lottery picks? Because of Eddie Griffin, really? And you say teams knew about him with such conviction -- I'm sure every team knew about him or else their management should be out of a job. I was talking about fans. Budinger didn't even make the all-rookie team, first or second. Let's reign this in -- Jonas Jerebko was seen has having a better year than Budinger. I think a valid criticism against your stance that another poster has already mentioned is examining Chase's progression through college. Over the course of three years, he only increased his PPG by 2.5 points. That doesn't exactly strike me as a huge progression forward or give me hope that he'll develop along the lines of Aaron Brooks, who you've often compared his development to. Aaron Brooks raised his scoring average by 7 points after one year, and finished his senior year averaging 10+ more points than he did as a freshman. Your comparisons of other players rookie stats vs. Budinger's is ridiculous and more apples to oranges than needs to be explained. Though you may have a future in politics with your deliberate misrepresenting of information to make a point. ("Kobe only averaged 7.6 ppg as a rookie -- Budinger averaged 8.9 ppg!") And to answer the OP question, if it were not obvious by now, Budinger's ceiling is a great role player. He'll never be more than an average defender (currently below-average) and I believe he lacks the ability to consistently score in 1on1 situations. He can hit the spot up jumper and is really good in transition, but when the game slows down and defense picks up in the playoffs, I just don't ever see him taking over. I would trade Budinger before I would Ariza, but I would probably let go of Shane before Chase simply due to his age. On a side note, DD, would you want to do a tip jar bet that Budinger will not supplant Kevin Martin or Trevor Ariza as the starter next year? As long as Budinger beats them out for the position and isn't the starter by default (injury), I'd gladly eat crow and contribute again to the site. It can happen in training camp or with 15 games left -- as long as the reason is Budinger is the better player and not because KM/TA are resting/injured.
DD, I've looked through some draft sites and this is who they have Budinger compared to and his ceiling. NBAdraft.net Comparison: Glen Rice/Brent Barry DraftExpress: Best Case: Martell Webster Worst Case: Morris Almond CBSsports: Comparison: Jarvis Hayes Some other sites have compared him to Rudy Fernandez. IMO, At best Chase will be similar to Richard Jefferson or Jason Richardson. IMO, his worst case scenario is Brent Barry (in his prime).
To determine CBuds real value ask yourself can he become a playmaker who can initiate offense, create shots, make the pass, etc. or is he just a shooter and strong role player with great athleticism? I see his ceiling as a Kevin Martin/Reggie Miller type player. Great shooters but not a Wade/T-mac playmaker. Most likely he will end up as a Brent Barry/Robert Horry/Jeff Hornacek type. A team needs CBud type players who are not going to demand the ball or max level contracts, but what this team needs more is a playmaker. Which is why it was so damn frustrating that the Rocks ended up in the worst possible spot. 9th seed worst lotto pick and no playoffs. Add Wall or Turner to this team and it's complete. Anyway you trade CBud/Hill/AB only if it gets you that playmaker. We have enough guys like AB, Martin, Scola who are just below all star status which IMO is the ceiling of both the #6 pick and Hill/CBud. A lateral move for an unknown is not a smart move.
I think Chase is a 12 point 2 assist backup. And the only way he will get any game starts is because of an injury. ie. I think he's already very close to his ceiling. And I think Brooks is very close to his ceiling, as is Martin and Scola. Yao I'm afraid is already past his ceiling. I agree that you don't blow up a team every year but I go back to the fact that I don't see how you can win without an alpha dog and there just isn't one on our list. In fact I think there are very few real alpha dogs. My list would only contain: Kobe and Lebron. Howard, Wade and Durant are A- Alpha dogs. And you might be able to squeeze a ring out if you have enough B tier alpha dogs like: Garnett (an ex-alpha but sliding), Pierce, Dirk, Nash, Williams, Bosh, Johnson, Paul, Roy but you have to really stack a team to get by the true alpha dog teams. Dallas, Utah and Phoenix have all tried to get there without a true alpha dog but have not been able to do it even with Cuban's cheating and near bottomless pockets. Detroit and Boston have done in the past but it is very difficult. Add to this that I don't even see any 2nd tier alpha dogs in our list either though I do see a couple of 3rd tier. Gelling will only get you a few more regular season wins but we will always first or second (at best) round fodder with that lineup (barring a long string of injuries which is very possible) and you'll never find an alpha dog in the 12-15 range. I think you have to pick at 5 or below to get one. Yes I know that Kobe was chosen at 7 but he was a HSer (risk and not allowed anymore). Of course if you can land the 1 or 2 or 3 pick, you stand a much better chance of getting one. And of course there are many times you will strike out no matter where you pick. But you have to somehow - by luck or suck - get your hands on an alpha dog to succeed. And once GMs get their hands on one, they will not let them go. You can wait for Kobe to retire or Lebron try his hand at baseball but you will just have a Howard or a Wade or a Durant and team waiting to dismantle you in a 7 game series. Our only rings came on Hakeem's back. Yes the rest of the team was important but without Hakeem we were a lotto bubble team. Even Clyde couldn't get a ring until he joined Hakeem. Hakeem was our alpha dog and I believe that we need an alpha dog if we are ever going to see another parade.
THIS IS EXACTLY MY POINT......people severely overate a high draft pick, outside of the top 2 or 3 picks there is just as much of a chance of Chase or Hill developing into an all star than there is of getting one in the draft. In fact, they are closer because they have one year of NBA experience. Thanks for saying what I have been trying to say... DD
The pool of big men is what drives them. More quality prospects are better than one or two. We all agree that IF Yao was completely healthy this won't even be discussed.
Lots of big men fail, people overeact to big men, more than anything. Greg Oden, Mike Olawakandi, Kwami Brown, Oliver Miller, etc..etc..etc... There seems to be nearly as good a chance of getting a good big man later in the first round as there is around 5 or 6..... And we have Hill, which is still developing rather nicely. I would not give up a young piece to REACH for a big, take a shot at Whiteside at 14 rather than giving up CBud or Hill to get to 6...IMO DD
Daryl is supposed to say that. He's not going to come out and say, "I really expect him to be a lifetime bench player." That wouldn't help Chase's ego if he stays or value if he's traded. Plus I think Daryl likes to think that of all of his players. Ariza was going to be our center piece.
Ok, well, I have not found Morey to say much other than what he believes, so if you are going to discount everything posted, like his rookie stats versus other rookies that developed, or what our own GM is saying, then there is no point in discussing it further. What do you think his ceiling is then? Go on record so we can discuss it in a couple of years. DD
Hey fair enough, if that is what I thought I would be on your side too. I guess we will agree to disagree and just see what happens. No point discussing it as we are just not looking at the same player etc. To me, he is a rookie and if he was doing this in year 3, I would agree with you, but I see major improvement as he gets more comfortable, and more leash from the coaches....ie driving to the whole off the dribble etc. DD
DD, your signature is comparing a 21 year old to an 18 year old. There is a big difference. Why don't you compare his stats to other 21 year olds?
those are the names of the major busts in a decade I would say Cousins seems to be that player... wonderful thing is there are plenty of them. True you can draft them later but most of those have major holes.
