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Buying a new car

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by STR8Thugg, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    It really is fantastic advice. I once walked out of a dealership 3 times before getting the price I wanted. You have to have patience and absolutely have to be willing to walk away.
     
  2. Xerobull

    Xerobull Contributing Member

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    Nah, can you link me?

    BTW, "Your biggest leverage will be walking out the door." applies to everything, not just buying a car.
     
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  3. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    If the dealership you are dealing with is a volume based dealer then try last week of the month. I had minimal resistance negotiating with a salesman on the last day of the month when I bought a few weeks ago.
     
  4. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    lol. The finance guy is a PITA. I usually don't even go into a dealership - you shouldn't have to, but sometimes you can't escape them scamming you into going through "the finance guy". My last 2 cars I basically purchased via email (they were new). I went to a random dealership to test drive them once. The only other time I went to a dealership was on my own to just check out the interior, exterior, etc. and then to pick the car up. On my most recent car back in 2014, I paid cash for the car, but somehow still sat at the dealership for about 2-3 hours signing papers because they were going through the 1970's routines of beating the customer down so they'll do anything just to get in the car. If they ever use the "we're trying to find your keys" routine on your trade-in, you should tell them to update their routine. :D I always take my trade-in to CarMax because they've given me pretty good deals. The finance guy somehow kept me in his office for an hour when I wasn't even financing. I just debated him and countering everything he said for pure entertainment value.

    One piece of advice on extended warranties. If you want one, you don't have to get one there when you sign the paperwork. You can get it after you buy the car. I always call around to different dealerships around the country before I buy. Different places charge different amounts and they can vary by hundreds of dollars due to mark-up. The only other thing I'd add is that I wouldn't buy anything other than the manufacturer's extended warranty. Too many people have bought extended warranties from third parties only to have those companies go belly-up/disappear. Whatever warranty you buy, even if it's from the dealership, make sure it's the manufacturer's warranty (or at least that's my opinion). Also make sure you know what it covers, what the deductible is, whether you'll hit the years or the mileage first based upon your driving, etc., to decide if it's worth it. Nowadays most cars should be able to go 75,000-100,000 miles without major problems (engine, transmission, other drivetrain, etc).

    Also, be realistic. Not every car can be had for under invoice pricing. If it's an outgoing model or a dime-a-dozen model with a ton of rebates, sure. Cadillac/GM was known for discounting off MSRP like crazy in the past (not sure they still do), so you could go in and look at a Caddy that retailed for $50,000 on the sticker and walk out paying $38k or something. lol. But if it's a new model that's in high demand, good luck, in most cases you're going to pay above invoice-to-MSRP. Make use of car forums where people share what they've paid at dealerships and also sites like TrueCar, Edmunds, etc.

    There're a lot of ways the consumer gets screwed by stealerships, so the more you know and are willing to learn/research before going in, the better. Different people have different expectations going into a dealership. Some people want to stick it to the dealership and go with tons of printouts, data, etc. so they can save $50. Some people walk in confident and walk out not knowing whether they got screwed or not, but they have an odd feeling they should buy some Preparation H. Some people just want to hit a monthly payment and believe me, they can find a way to make you see the number you want to see whether you want to get screwed or not. lol. Figure out what person you are and one way or another pray you'll either be happy or find out your expectations are too high. Just don't walk out feeling you maybe need Preparation H. No matter what, just go in understanding they aren't out to help you.
     
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  5. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I meant to circle back and ask the question, why don't you believe financing more than 60 months is worth it?

    If you can get a low rate for the financing, why not stretch it out and put the additional money you aren't paying to the loans to your 401k, IRA, whatever to make you more money?

    I ask because I did a 72 month loan, with the intention of paying it off early, but I figured give me the lowest possible payment in the meantime to put extra money aside for whatever I want. Ultimately the loan will cost me $2k or so, which I know I can make more if I put the difference in stretching out my payments in the market.

    Maybe I'm not thinking of something correctly and just would like to know. For reference, on the new vehicle I purchased, I already have a ton of equity due to my trade in (my trade in was paid off years ago).
     
  6. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    I personally don't do warranties and I don't buy new, however - I have helped multiple people buy cars and typically piss off the sales people, not on purpose - but I don't let who took me to inspect a car get suckered into emotions/ripped off on value/finance, walked multiple times even if I have to drag whoever picked me to look at the car (obviously this is for used). I don't want to be the reason they hate me/car, and so far.... My success rate is very good.

    With that said, the prices sound nice right now, I just don't like the part about 2019 Kia and 20k note, you might want to consider selling out right (well if covid wasn't around blah...) - and if you don't get the value you want - as stated earlier don't let emotions win/walk.

    I think everything has been covered here though from other posts. I'm also not against people buying new, but I'm all about value and that 1st year or 2 sucks for value lost.
     
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  7. Blake

    Blake Contributing Member

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    You can finance as long as you want to. I was meaning it more in the sense of you having the buying mentality of, “I only want to pay $400 per month” and telling the dealer that. Then they charge you $4k more for the car and tack a year onto the financing. Not including interest, 400 for 60 months is a car priced at 24k. People who play the monthly payment card have dealers say ok, then we will do that for you for 72 months and you End up paying 28.8k for the same car you
    Could have negotiated for 24k because you are focused on a monthly payment.
     
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  8. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    This is perfect example - especially if the person on top of price isn't getting the 0 interest rate... And only looking at the monthly payment.

    Obviously I'm sure most of us know better but unfortunately some don't and basically get robbed.
     
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  9. K LoLo

    K LoLo Member

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    So did you add a lot of money extra money into investments?

    From my experience, a lot of people say they're going to do a lot of investing, and then just never do.
     
  10. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    Yes, that's the plan. I'm already maxing out my 401k (I actually need to adjust my amounts going forward) and I plan to open an IRA and try to max that one out.
     
  11. K LoLo

    K LoLo Member

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    When I reached my max, my company just stopped my contributions to the 401K. So you might be OK, if you're worried about going over.
     
  12. Trader_Jorge

    Trader_Jorge King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Here's how The Conquistador buys cars:
    1. Do an incredible amount of research. Call and negotiate as much as possible before you go. Work with multiple dealerships (a lot of times, they'll find out you are shopping them and this makes them hustle more). Do not step foot into the dealership until the deal is at least 95% framed up.
    2. Walk into the dealership, tell your salesman that you are going to make him your bit** today.
    3. Change the terms of the deal (in your favor) when you get there to immediately rock them back on their heels and make them fight to obtain the deal that was previously agreed upon. The best defense is a good offense... and they'll try to screw you if you don't go on offense first.
    4. Put them on a shot clock. Tell them you want to be in and out within 30 minutes MAX, or the deal is over. Dealerships use time as a tactic - they'll string you out to occupy your whole day... hoping you will relent and accept a weaker deal.
    5. Have some flexibility - if you anchor to one specific car or set of options, then you are revealing a lot of information and this can be used against you. Even if you do fall in love with one car, don't let them know that. Make them think that value is your #1 objective.
    6. If all else fails, pull the salesman off to the side and offer him $200 in cash directly for every thousand dollars he can shave off the price.

    GOOD DAY
     
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  13. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I'm curious if my company will do the same, I'll be asking for sure on that. I'll need to work out my IRA and see how I can max that out. My wife is hanging on by a thread to her job, but so far she is still there, she's survived multiple layoffs at this point, so if I have to hold back on that, I will.
     
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  14. Exiled

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    I'm looking at a CRV 2006 manual (150k miles) for winter usage, what do you think Scooty~!
     
  15. TMac'n

    TMac'n Contributing Member

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  16. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    I think that's a nice pick, as long as the manual transmission wasn't abused it should last a long time (and even if it needs some work it has a lot of miles left regardless).

    I also like that the 2006 model has a timing chain. The only bigger issue I can recall is that you might want to change the differential fluid if you notice any noise, I want to say the model had a run of years where the dif fluid needed to be changed, but once it's replaced it'll work fine.
     
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  17. adoo

    adoo Member

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    concur'; for a new car, go to dealership at the end of month or quarter.

    in addition to their regular sales commission, their bonus plans for new cars sold are very well-rewarded.
    a salesperson, one short of that new car sales bonus, would more than willing to give up his regular commission on a car sales for that new car sales bonus,
    more so on the last day of month / quarter
     
  18. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    1. You need to understand the concepts of "invoice" (not MSRP on the sticker) price and "hold back". The manufacturers actually pay a percentage (usually of invoice) to the dealers to move a car. That is why when dealerships sell you a car at "invoice" they are still making money. Knowing that they get a hold back means you really know what they are making on a car.

    2. Try to have good financing before you walk in. Many times credit unions knock the socks off of manufacturers or banks' interest rates if you have one available.

    3. Rebates or dealer incentives are from the Manufacturer directly, not the dealership. Don't let them keep you rebate or incentive. Most dealers should be happy to sell you a car around invoice plus knock off the rebates. If they tell you that they can't, walk out. That's money between you and the manufacturer and the dealer is going to try to take a piece of it. Also, there are often rebates that you may not know about (farmer credit, military service, etc.) Make sure you ask and get all applicable rebates from the manufacturer. Dealerships will often not tell you that the rebates stack and try to keep them for themselves.

    4. Be prepared to NOT trade in your car unless you really have to. Get a KBB instant cash offer (be very honest in the detailed assessment.) This is a good starting point and often the dealership will match it if its decent. However, remember that sales tax is calculated in the POST trade in price reduction, so if they are within a couple hundred bucks, its usually a wash.

    5. Always negotiate the out the door sales price, then trade in. Don't let them try to confuse you with monthly payment numbers, or negotiate well on the sales price and nail you on your trade in. Think of them as separate transactions.

    6. Finally, ask about every item on the sales order. There are often "vehicle ready fees" that are just cash to wash your car and put gas in it. The salesman will often tell you its part of his commission. Its not, don't pay it. There are often document fees of anywhere from $100 to $300. These are NOT required fees, they are admin fees the dealer is passing to you. Strangely, these are often non-negotiable and even Edmunds will tell you its often not worth fighting over unless there are duplicate doc fees. Sometimes you can get them to knock it off, but it is rare. Don't fall for VIN etching fees, stain treatment fees, etc. Question every line, they'll often try to mix their fees in with the actual Tax, Title, and License fees.

    7. Many dealerships require you to sign an arbitration agreement waiving your right to sue. Ask about this up front. If you are not comfortable with this, don't deal with that dealership. More and more dealerships are doing this and it is often non-negotiable.

    8. If you have financing already, or are paying cash, they are NOT required to run your credit. They often will still try and outright lie to you that it is a Homeland Security requirement. This is a lie and if you don't want them to run your credit, leave.

    9. If you want to save headaches, often you can get supplier pricing through employers etc. Add in your rebates and that is usually your price. Supplier pricing is usually invoice or 1% below invoice. You could theoretically negotiate a better deal, but often only a couple hundred bucks more, and its sometimes not worth the trouble.

    10. Supply and demand still matters. If its a new, hot model, less likely to negotiate down. Makes things like supplier pricing more valuable.
     
  19. ima_drummer2k

    ima_drummer2k Contributing Member

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    If I were to buy, say, a 7 year old Pilot with about 100K miles, how long do you think it would typically last? Can you put 200K miles on a Pilot if you take good care of it? What other kinds of SUV's can you put that kind of mileage on do you think?

    Bought my wife a 2019 Infiniti QX60 last weekend. We went to EchoPark on I-45 instead of our usual CarMax. Paid about 3K less for the same car with the same mileage. AND they actually gave me 4K for my 2010 Explorer with over 100K miles and a slipping transmission. I was expecting about $500. :)
     
  20. CCity Zero

    CCity Zero Member

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    I think on the Pilot as long as the timing belt was serviced (60-100k mark) it should be decent. Unfortunately with the timing belt and a vehicle at 100k you'll want to make sure it's been serviced along with the water pump (or ask for a discount if it hasn't been done because you don't want the belt to fail, for example - if someone lets the belt go and it breaks it'll damage the engine and make it really bad - basically replacing the engine).

    IIrc the typical amount of labor/rate is probably 3-4 hours (on the Pilot). It's not bad to do if you work on cars but you'll want to take time and make sure timing is all set correctly. I also highly recommend staying on top of it to avoid issues - I'll typically recommend someone go 80-100k miles on a timing belt, especially on an interference engine w/ a timing belt and then replace the timing belt.

    With that said, I don't think it's necessarily bad if a car has a timing belt, there's pros/cons to having a belt vs chain, but unfortunately maintenance isn't one of them. So in my experience I prefer chains over belt engines if you're looking to go 200k+ with less/not much maintenance.

    So for SUVs, like the Explorer it is surprising it was slipping on you, unfortunately it was probably just bad luck on that. Typically on SUVs I've found domestic like Ford/Chevrolet (their larger ones - so not the Equinox - but like the Tahoe/Expedition) to be good, but if you're looking smaller Toyota/Honda are great (even their bigger ones are nice too).

    To make it a little easier on picking cars - I'd mainly avoid used Jeep/Dodge/Chrysler if looking for suv at the 6 year mark that you want to last. And then determine if the suv has a timing belt or a timing chain and then talk down the price if it's over 100k miles (like if it's a belt engine that hasn't been serviced as mentioned earlier).

    The only other thing to be careful on is to make sure if you go with a small suv that it has a normal automatic transmission or a manual transmission - so avoid CVT type transmissions. I think they're finally getting better but most likely if you're looking at Pilot size suv it'll have a regular automatic transmission, I just recommend checking so you know what it is and what to expect.

    I hope this helps, sorry for the long reply.
     
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