LOL Is that how you really see liberalism? bamma what about the death penalty? The church is against it; shouldn't the government?
Killing unborn children because one wishes to avoid the consequences of promsicuity and waging a necessary war are two wholly different things.
Without writing a book, I'd like to say.....yes. The death penalty is something that I think the Church is wrong about. Life in prison isn't a punishment fitting of some of the crimes committed by the truly evil among us.
Not exactly. The reason the blackpopulation vote en masse for the left is as a result of their deep hatred for everything right and the great distrust they have towards republicans and their seeming covert and hypocritical motives. They wold continue to vote this way regardless of what the black priests tell them. What the black clergymen and ministrers only try to do most of those times is just bring out the voters. That is the biggest issue with black votes - not how they should or will vote - but how many of them will show up. I speak on this issue with authority - it is indeed not a very complicated stance (i.e. black vote). In all I am against all forms of mixture of politics and religion.
I disagree with that. Keep in mind that, up until the civil rights movement (and even beyond in the south), the ONLY place blacks could discuss politics was in church. It was as much a community meeting place as a place of worship. I didn't know this until well into my life because I had always gone to suburban white churches where you go to church then you go home. Politics was, basically, left at the door - well, that was until one conservative church I was at started handing out voter guides, which is becoming more and more common in all churches. Everyone influences voters in a different way. I don't want the country to be be overtaken by the Christian right, but I recognize their right to speak their minds and influence people in the way that they want things to be. If you disagree as I do, you have a responsibility to do the opposite.
I'm sure you have intimate knowledge, but I've known a LOT of African Americans responsible for driving voting in their community and I don't know them to be hateful very often. Distrustful? You betcha and I understand. But, what ministers DO influence is not so much how their parishoners vote but if they vote at all. A minister asking fellow churchgoers to go to the polls and vote is a powerful motivator in the black community and the reason why campaigns court the ministerial alliances as they do when it comes election time.
You are not the one who decides the church's doctrines (thank god). Why do you get to disagree with the church on certain issues and nobody else does? If you support the war, and you also support the death penalty you definitely should be denied communion. (if not completely excommunicated from the church). We do not need pretend Christians. Your beliefs are exactly the type of evil that the church is fighting.
So, you only think that liberals should be denied communion and even then, only for issues that YOU think the church is right about?
Churchgoers Get Direction From Bush Campaign By Alan Cooperman Washington Post Staff Writer Thursday, July 1, 2004; Page A06 The Bush-Cheney reelection campaign has sent a detailed plan of action to religious volunteers across the country asking them to turn over church directories to the campaign, distribute issue guides in their churches and persuade their pastors to hold voter registration drives. Campaign officials said the instructions are part of an accelerating effort to mobilize President Bush's base of religious supporters. They said the suggested activities are intended to help churchgoers rally support for Bush without violating tax rules that prohibit churches from engaging in partisan activity. "We strongly believe that our religious outreach program is well within the framework of the law," said Terry Holt, spokesman for the Bush-Cheney campaign. But tax experts said the campaign is walking a fine line between permissible activity by individual congregants and impermissible activity by congregations. Supporters of Sen. John F. Kerry (Mass.), the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, charged that the Bush-Cheney campaign is luring churches into risking their tax status. "I think it is sinful of them to encourage pastors and churches to engage in partisan political activity and run the risk of losing their tax-exempt status," said Steve Rosenthal, chief executive officer of America Coming Together, a group working to defeat Bush. The instruction sheet circulated by the Bush-Cheney campaign to religious volunteers lists 22 "duties" to be performed by specific dates. By July 31, for example, volunteers are to "send your Church Directory to your State Bush-Cheney '04 Headquarters or give [it] to a BC04 Field Rep" and "Talk to your Pastor about holding a Citizenship Sunday and Voter Registration Drive." By Aug. 15, they are to "talk to your Church's seniors or 20-30 something group about Bush/Cheney '04" and "recruit 5 more people in your church to volunteer for the Bush Cheney campaign." By Sept. 17, they are to host at least two campaign-related potluck dinners with church members, and in October they are to "finish calling all Pro-Bush members of your church," "finish distributing Voter Guides in your church" and place notices on church bulletin boards or in Sunday programs "about all Christian citizens needing to vote." The document was provided to The Washington Post by a Democrat. A spokesman for the Internal Revenue Service, Frank Keith, said, "It would be inappropriate for the IRS, based on a limited set of facts and circumstances, to render a judgment about whether the activities in this document would or would not endanger a church's tax-exempt status." He pointed out, however, that the IRS on June 10 sent a strongly worded letter to both the Republican and Democratic national committees, reminding them that tax-exempt charitable groups "are prohibited from directly or indirectly participating or intervening in any political campaign on behalf of, or in opposition to, any candidate for public office." That warning came one week after The Post and other news media reported on a Bush-Cheney campaign e-mail that sought to identify 1,600 "friendly congregations" in Pennsylvania where Bush supporters "might gather on a regular basis." The IRS letter noted that religious organizations are allowed to sponsor debates, distribute voter guides and conduct voter registration drives. But if those efforts show "a preference for or against a certain candidate or party . . . it becomes a prohibited activity," the letter said. Milton Cerny, a tax specialist in the Washington office of the law firm Caplin & Drysdale who formerly administered tax-exempt groups for the IRS, said there is nothing in the campaign instructions "that on its face clearly would violate" the law. "But these activities, if conducted in concert with the church or church leadership, certainly could be construed by the IRS as the church engaging in partisan electioneering," he said. "The devil is in the details." Rosemary E. Fei, a tax specialist at the San Francisco law firm of Silk, Adler & Colvin, said the campaign checklist "feels dangerous to me" not just because of what is in it, but because of what is not. "There's no mention whatsoever that churches should be careful to remain nonpartisan," she said. Holt suggested such warnings are unnecessary. "Why would we warn one citizen about the boundaries of their political discussion with another citizen?" he said. http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A19082-2004Jun30?language=printer
i didn't mean you specifically...my frustration isn't with you for posting this. believe me!! i just don't like people globbing on like they're Christ's candidate. i'm bothered by that.
Our names are in the Church Directory so friends can contact us and we can provide assistance if needed. It is not intended to be used as a political tool and I certainly didn't give anyone permission to hand over personal information to any national organization that isn't the Methodist Church. As an aside, Mrs. rimrocker and I hosted a Kerry House Party on Saturday and pulled in $1,200 for Big John. One of our friends who happens to be a Baptist came and participated. When she told one of her Church friends she had went, the friend practically disowned her on the spot saying something like "God doesn't want you to vote that way." They haven't spoken since. This is one of the great dangers of politicizing religion... good people get divided over stuff unnecessarily.
yeah...if i get a call like that, i won't be happy about it. i'm presbyterian, though...not sure i'll be getting that call!
Just like my brother saying that Democrats aren't Chrisitans and they're going to hell. This is the same "Christian" who hasn't called his sister once to see how she was doing since she lost her baby last September. The same Christian who, when I informed him of this fact three weeks ago said he would rectify it and hasn't, and didn't even call or send a card to our Dad on Father's Day.
Before this goes any further. I did not start this thread to bash Christians or religion. I am concerned about the way the administration is seemingly manipulating religion for political gain. thanks
