What a bunch of garbage !!!!!!! He won the electoral college, it had nothing to do with the popular vote. At least have the decency to understand our political elections system before you post. SHEESH !!! DD
Yes, I have no understanding of our political system. The Supreme Court had nothing to do with the outcome of the election. Please D&D have some decency.
Had the Supreme Court not stepped in (on a state matter, no less), Gore would have won the Electoral College, just as he did the popular vote. Of the 9 possible "recount methods," Gore would have won 8 of them. And don't say, "Get over it." Democracy was stolen from voters, and the will of the people was trampled. Democracy is predicated on the candidate with the most votes wins. This did not happen. That so many people (conservative and liberal) have accepted this injustice shows just how brain-washed people are. Do you honestly think that if Gore had "won" the way Bush did, Republicans would have strapped on the kneepads and called for the nation to move on? Gimme a break. Gore would have been recalled, and rightfully so. Bush was never elected President, and if he "wins" in 2004 it'll be because the corporation he chose to handle the national elections (Diebold) is a loyal Republican backer with strong conservative ties. Oh, and we'll never know because Bush made it illegal for ANYBODY to check the accuracy of the machines. Nice.
I'm so tempted to quote Gregonomics. DD is right and bringing up the popular vote (AGAIN!) is just a way for people that are staunchly anti-Bush to show that they have a vendetta and will oppose Bush at almost all costs. That kind of hardheaded stupidity is exactly what the administration is doing wrong. I see oddly similar circumstances when I hear about the election and Iraq. Underoverup on Bush - something that happened three years ago, when I didn't get my way, PROVES that Bush is out to hurt America and is evil. The recognized legal authorities (Supreme Court) were biased against me! Bush on Saddam - something that happened 12 years ago, when my father didn't get his way, PROVES that Saddam is out to hurt America and is evil. The recognized legal authorities (UN inspectors) were biased against me! Do you not realize when you constantly bring up the same biased comments that it makes people that are not vehement Reps or Dems become more sympathetic with the opposite viewpoint? Argh!
We don't live in a true democracy, and in this country the elections are not predicated on the candidate with the most votes winning. If Gore had won the same way, yes the Republicans would have complained. And I would have told them to shut up if they were still complaining months or years later.
Goophers you seem a little defensive on this issue, sorry I brought it up. Time to let sleeping dogs lie.
And exactly how is that different from the 8 year long vendetta the Republican party waged against Bill Clinton? People, civil discourse in this country has disappeared, and we had better get it back fast if we want to have any chance of solving the numerous problems facing this country.
the only reason i threw Clinton's name out there is because of the records and references portion of the first post. i said if you want to start getting into the personal stuff that was like 20 years ago then clintons far outweighs bush. I won't get into all of it, but there are numerous murders and scandals he's been linked to in some form and i'll leave it at that. now with the resume - i don't care who the president is, you can always find a bunch of negatives like that. bush may have not done anything other than cut taxes and go to war but clinton didn't do much else either. So if your going to knock bush, not clinton as well. I've never seen a board so anti bush.
Sorry if I offended, I'm just sick of what I think is mindless bashing. It's no different than the Clinton bashing, and I only lashed out against the Bush bashing because of the original topic of the post. All the 'Clinton and interns' and 'Bush is stupid' and 'Bush is not the president' comments may be rallying cries for Reps and Dems, but I think they just aggravate people that aren't committed to either side.
I don't consider myself Republican or Democrat, but tend to lean more towards the Republican line of thinking. Though I truly dissaprove of Jr.'s handling of the UN and his disregard for the international community, his economic reforms have been nothing less than extraordinary. Lets not talk about Stock Market Crashes please. For the ignorant, though you may have lost money in the junk you bought; the S&P 500 Index is approximately where it was at in the Fourth Quarter of 1998, and the DJIA is around the 1999 area. What bubble, I would dare to say??
Bush won the election fair and square as it is drawn up. He won Florida, no matter what the margin. He DID not win the popular vote, and if I had my way, it would be a popular vote only that counts, but being that it is an electoral college system...BUSH WON !!! Now, Undercover...sorry for jumping on you so harshly, I get tired of hearing people bash Bush..just to bash him. Just as I grew weary of people bashing Clinton..... I just want to move on.... DD
DD, You haven't heard from me on the election in a long time, if at all. I can't recall when I started posting in the political stuff, but it was relatively recently. I was mad when it all went down, but I did let it go. But I can't let your last post stand. First, it's worth remembering that the RNC were asked shortly before the election if they would accept an electoral loss if they'd won the popular vote. They said, in no uncertain terms, they would not. Any talk of sore losers after it went the other way is 'revisionist,' in Bush's new parlance. More importantly, the idea that Bush won fairly no matter how you look at it is laughable on several counts. It dismisses (as the Bush team did) the numerous accounts of registered Dems (mostly blacks) being turned away from Florida polls due to imaginary felony convictions as well as a concerted effort to populate polls in poor neighborhoods with a strong police presence. It dismisses the butterfly ballots where great numbers of elderly Jewish Democrats had their votes registered for Pat Buchanan. And it dismisses the flawed recounts. We will never truly know how many actual votes were cast for each candidate (the unreliability of the paper ballots with their various states of dented or hanging chads precludes us ever knowing this with certainty). What we can pretty easily surmise, based on the butterfly situation alone, is that more people in Florida sincerely intended to cast votes for Gore. All that said, though I think that democracy was certainly not served (as, no matter how you slice it, many people went to the polls to vote and had their votes chucked in the trash), I have let this go and I don't intend to complain about it again. That is, except when people say Bush won fairly by any standard. That is patently false and you ought to know better.
Anyway that you do a count or recount has a margin of error. All of the counts that I have seen, the winner won by less than the margin of error. Thus, the Florida vote was essentially a tie. Now, Gore might have gotten past the margin of error if the rolls were not cooked by Jeb et al.
You guys are grasping at straws...the mythical voters that were turned away.....etc..etc... Bush won Florida, even if it was by one solitary vote...he won. Now...he did LOSE the popular vote, I concede that...and wish that the winner was decided by that alone. It isn't therefore, Bush won fair and square....done deal...it is over....I am tired of hearing about it. Don't want to hear about Monica Lewinsky or Whitewater anymore either. DD
DD didn't say that Bush won fairly by any standard; he said Bush won by the standard in effect. I think Democracy was served; it withstood this flap without bloodshed. Didn't Saddam get 100% of the Iraqi vote...
DaDakota, I'm actually tired of hearing about it too, but when you assert that Bush definitely won Florida you're going to hear about it from me. The voters who were turned away were not mythical, but even discounting them the butterfly ballots alone indicate more people went to the polls for Gore in Florida. Even leaving those people who mistakenly voted Buchanan though, there is absolutely no way to know who received more votes. No way. I'm willing to let it go until someone says something as stupid as you said about the whole thing. giddyup, First off, DD said Bush won fair and square. That simply isn't true. I don't suggest there was a better way to handle it and I don't even suggest sinister behavior on the parts of Jeb or Katherine or even the Supreme Court. I can imagine sinister behavior from any of them, but I'd never assert it. I can't possibly know. So maybe there wasn't a better way to break what was, as near as we can tell, a tie. That's why I don't bring it up anymore. But while it may have been as fair as possible to the candidates and the parties, it was absolutely unfair to the voters. Not what went down after the vote, but what went down before and during it. People were disenfranchised of their votes. In America. That's unconscionable. The butterfly ballots (which I readily admit were designed by a Democrat official, but that's not the fault of the Dem voters whose intended votes weren't registered), the systematic intimidation of minorities and, perhaps worst (since election officials were absolutely aware of the problem) the paper punch card ballots, which had resulted in many, many lost votes in every election in which they were used all add up to a failure of our American voting system. We are, each of us, entitled to a vote. Many people in Florida (and elsewhere), of all political persuasions, were robbed of theirs. That is anything but fair.
you're going to have to provide sources on this one, Vegan, because that is exactly the opposite of my understanding.
MadMax, you should check out the Miami Herald. Gore won. Even after that tramp and her henchmen "accidentally" deleted thousands upon ****ING THOUSANDS of eligible voters from the lists. the majority of whom were accidentally from African-American and democratic leaning neighborhoods. Even then, we still had won. But those treacherous ****s from the Supreme Court supplanted the will of the people. Yes, they protected Bush from harm, the harm of being seen as an illegitimate president. You guys really take the cake. You ride Clinton's jock about being a draft dodger. Point. But you up the ante and vote for an awol ***** that didn't even have the honor to stick it out in the guard. You guys label Gore a liar. Now Newt ****ing Gingrich disagrees with you, but you decide to up the ante and spend hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate w**** financing to belabor the point. And you vote for a son of a b**** who evaded talk about his a) cocaine habits b) his drunk driving crime, shall I go on? Batman Jones and I all hounded on you guys that the charges leading up to the war were bs, where's the beef, yadda yadda yadda... and we're still wondering where the beef is. Man, I'm tired of being right. The guy sent thousands of Muslims to their deaths. Hundreds of Americans... executing the ******* Carter Doctrine, and you guys pretend that the corporate w**** Clinton proves the point that Bush isn't a liar??? It's our ******* policy guys, wake up. Hello? Israel? Hello? Oil? You're all either incredibly misinformed, or the most disingenuous lot there is. DaDakota, sure, I recognize the fact that he's a parrot that just takes up bandwith by arguing status quo on every single point, but Max, you pretend to actually have a hint of objectivity in your thinking. Why don't you just admit it? You voted for Bush b/c he is your little born again, can do no harm, tax cutting conservative... you'll defend him now b/c he is your guy. If his name was Bill, you would eviscerate him for all of the things that we hound him on daily. But he's "in", ehhh. You just "feel good" about him, huh? What a bunch of bull****. There's nothing compassionate about conservatism. The republican party does not monopolize morality. Why don't you guys act like the Christians you pretend to be... you know, get rid of the homophobia, the mormon-bashing, the racism... Quit being so damn transparently hypocritical (*whoa* all of this is really just b/c Hatch is using pirated software... but... I feel better after letting off the steam, so I'll let it stand)
