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Bush Favors Pollution

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rimrocker, Oct 25, 2002.

  1. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    1) Bob Lanier = Democrat

    2) Road construction is my main beef. Timeliness and quality of performance have been severely lacking. This latest incident at Loop 610 and 59 illustrates the quality point. The entire road system being borderline un-driveable for over a year between downtown and the Med Center illustrates the timeliness point. What, if anything is Lee Brown doing about this? Please advise.

    As a sign of my altruistic tendencies, I'm happy to help pay for this 6-mile light rail system which I will never use. In the meantime, I will continue to drive my luxury SUV (which guzzles gas and pollutes BIG TIME) to work each day.:D
     
  2. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    The air in Houston sucks. I try to avoid ever having to visit Houston for that reason alone.
     
  3. right1

    right1 Member

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    But if they can make an SUV that doesn't pollute, don't you think they should do it Jorge?
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    really? where are you from?

    the air in LA sucks, but it's still a fun place to visit...wouldn't keep me away from friends and family if they lived there.
     
  5. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Live in NYC....I get sinus problems, itchy throat and eyes, and sometimes breathing problems whenever I've been to Houston....so I figure why opt for a vacation or trip that's just going to be unpleasant.

    Incidentally, I don't really have any of these problems when I visit LA as long as I stay somewhere near the coast. It's kinda funny that NYC air is clean and fresh versus Houston!
     
  6. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    that is interesting...i've lived in houston all my life and never had those problems...my wife moved here from little rock and didn't have those problems...4 million people live here...i would assume a good number of those don't have the effects you have had, though I know Jeff has.
     
  7. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Ya, maybe some people are just more sensitive than others. It's definitely a Houston thing for me though. I've been to San Antonio and Austin and not experienced any of those problems.
     
  8. right1

    right1 Member

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    The air is bad in a lot of places. That's the problem. Doesn't it make you mad when you see dark, black carbon monoxide spraying in your kids face? And to know that it doesn't have to be that way.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    2) Road construction is my main beef. Timeliness and quality of performance have been severely lacking. This latest incident at Loop 610 and 59 illustrates the quality point. The entire road system being borderline un-driveable for over a year between downtown and the Med Center illustrates the timeliness point. What, if anything is Lee Brown doing about this? Please advise.

    I don't know if Houston is this way, but in many metro areas, the local MPO (in Houston's case, HGAC) does much of the highway planning. Much of that construction is then funded by federal dollars (but you want lower taxes, so there are fewer dollars, right?) rather than at the state and local level.

    The TEA-21 highway bill is up for reauthorization next year. If you want more done, you should contact your MPO as well as support an increase in funding for TEA-21.
     
  10. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    More properly stated, the air in certain parts of Houston sucks. Ground level ozone varies dramatically depending on what part of town you are in. The notoriously bad spots are the southwest side (along 59) and the deer park area. Other parts of the city can be just fine at any given moment.
     
  11. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Can you ever, EVER admit when you're wrong? You tried to lay the fact that we don't have light rail yet on Brown, Jeff gave you the comprehensive history of the rail issue in Houston which clearly indicts the right and all you can say is Lanier = Democrat. Lanier was elected on anti-rail and doubling the police force with overwhelming support from conservatives. Although he is a registered Democrat, he allies himself with conservatives on a great many issues. We don't have rail because he allied himself with powerful conservative lobbies who are anti-public transport. Democrats have long supported rail in Houston and many of them opposed Lanier on it, particularly George Greanias. The reason we STILL don't have it is Tom Delay. And the reason we ultimately WILL have it is Lee Brown. Be a man and admit it when you're clearly wrong.

    And how generous of you to allow us to build rail with your tax dollars while you not only pollute (like all of us drivers), but are so smug as to imply you enjoy polluting.
     
  12. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Batman--
    1) Bob Lanier = Democrat -- this was posted because Jeff referred to him as a moderate conservative. I just couldn't let this representation of him slide. He is a democrat.

    2) My "ask Lee Brown" statement was in response to why the light rail wasn't finished yet. The project has begun, and the chaos that it has created in Houston is overwhelming. We are lacking leadership in this project. Lee Brown should provide that leadership. This is a problem that extends beyond construction of the light rail. The Houston construction debacle is not being dealt with. Lee Brown owes me an answer. Jeff's post was nice, but it was off-topic as far as I'm concerned.

    I don't mind pollution as long as it comes out of the back of my luxury SUV. That way, as long as I am moving forward, I can keep my sunroof down and not be impacted by the emissions. :D
     
  13. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    There are conservative Democrats.
     
  14. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Nice edit, youngster.
     
  15. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    I don't know what you're talking about.
     
  16. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    On rail Lanier was with the Republicans and regardless of his official registration he governed as a moderate conservative.

    And JEFF's post was off topic??? This is a thread about polution. Jeff spent the first part of his post talking about the dangers of polution and the second part talking about rail, which is a partial solution to our polution levels here. Your posts are about how you don't care about polution and how you only care about street closings. Who's off topic?

    I'm disappointed in Brown on construction, too. But the rail project is not due to be complete until early 2004, so Brown's not running late yet. If that's not soon enough for you, Tom Delay owes you an answer. The money we were eligible for in federal funds for this project would have been more than enough to complete rail and end the street closings a hell of a lot sooner. Delay had no problem sending federal funds to Dallas for the exact same thing, but denied such funds to his hometown. If you don't like it, talk to him. That is, if your extreme bias allow you to ever recognize wrong behavior in a conservative.

    As for your final paragraph, other conservatives on this board say their politics shouldn't indicate that they don't care what happens to other people and that their party does care about all people. I disagree with them in many cases about their party, but I take them at their word about their personal empathy for others. You're different. You seem to have no problem gleefully proclaiming that you do not care about other people. I think that's sad.
     
    #36 Batman Jones, Oct 25, 2002
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2002
  17. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    You originally posted "There are conservative Democrats, rookie", which you quickly edited to say, "There are conservative Democrats."

    That's what I'm talking about, Pinocchio. Just remember that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

    Batman --
    I'm glad we agree on Brown's local leadership on construction projects. The money is there for them to go about their business, but gross mismanagement and lack of controls have run amok, creating an absolute nightmare on the streets of Houston.
     
  18. Rocketman95

    Rocketman95 Hangout Boy

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    Sorry, I had an overdose of jackass pills this morning. Side effects wore off in time for me to edit.
     
  19. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    First off, all of Lanier's primary campaign contributors were conservative. I mean, he was fighting against guys like Sylvester Turner, George Grenias and Kathy Whitmire, so it is understandable. But, he was a Dixie-crat. Democrat in standing but conservative in reputation.

    I know all the people that worked on his campaigns and his fundraisers. His supporters read like a who's who list of GOP members in Harris County.

    Second, I'm not supporting Brown on the construction. There are serious problems with the Public Works Dept. and that's all on him, however, the light rail WAS AND IS scheduled to be completed in 2004.

    In fact, if it weren't for Rob Todd's frivilous lawsuit, it would've been done in late 2003. But, because of his delay tactics, Main Street will be a nightmare until after the Super Bowl in January 2004. Great.

    In addition, you don't know very much about city construction issues and you certainly are not informed on the city and county plans, all of which were approved and heavily supported by groups like the Greater Houston Partnership which is a GOP-held organization. At the moment, there are numerous concurrent road issues in downtown and the surround areas.

    One is the Cotswald Project which is part of an overall beautification project and parking/sidewalk restoration. It is why there are not slanted parking spaces instead of only paralell parking. All of that was privately funded with federal matching funds. This one will be done early next year.

    The second is the Main Street project. This is 90 percent funded privately and works around the light rail to beautify and improve the area for both cars and pedestrians. This one will not be complete until 2005.

    The third is the re-engineering of the city water/sewer system that includes the re-paving and re-construction of roads in and around downtown. This one is supposed to be done next year.

    The fourth is Reliant Energy's re-engineering of their inner city infrastructure which means cutting up all the streets, removing old power lines and replacing them with new one's. This one is supposed to be completed downtown late next year.

    The fifth is the rails-to-trails program that is paid for with local and federal matching funds where they increase the amount of bikeways both on street as well as conversion of walkways and old rail lines to bike paths. This is slated for completion in about 3 years.

    The sixth is the light rail project going down Main Street as well as several other corridor-related Metro projects around town including places like Westpark. The initial light rail is done in 2004. The rest is ongoing depending on rail extensions. They are part of Metro's long-range 2020 plan.

    The last is really a group of projects related to freeways. Those are all supervised by Public Works, the HGAC, Harris County and the Federal Highway Department. They are primarily determined by Federal Highway regulation and funding. These aren't going to end anytime soon.

    The problem is on a number of levels starting with the fact that there has never, in the city of Houston, been this many concurrent road and street construction repairs. Not once. In addition, Houston has been struggling with potholes and other recurrent street repair problems since the late 70's. No one has managed to fix it yet.

    To top it all off, the Buffalo Bayou project will very likely begin next year and run for the next 12 to 16 years as they completely re-do Buffalo Bayou for commercial, flood control and environmental purposes.

    All of these projects dol contribute to congestion and, as a result, contribute to pollution but they are on the road to completion. When they are finished, they will radically IMPROVE many of the congestion problems in Houston making for cleaner air. But, ultimately, the only way to truly solve our air pollution problems is to improve fuel efficiency standards so big gas-guzzling SUV's don't belch **** into the air on a daily basis AND require a large-scale clean-up of industrial complexes in and around the city.

    Since no one wants to give up their SUV's and the state seems to have no backbone when it comes to industry, we seem destined to not meet the 2007 goals set by the EPA for air quality in Houston. If that indeed is the case, we will lose BILLIONS of dollars every year in federal highway funding and if you think roads are bad now, try eliminating highway funding from the budget.

    I am no further off topic than you were to suggest that light rail's non-completion (that isn't even due yet) was due to Brown.

    The problem is so much more complex than your single-line sound bites would suggest and the pollution issue is much more dire than you can imagine. A study done by the Greater Houston Partnership, the city and the county last year showed that city, county and private businesses lose more than $1 billion per year in lost employee hours or healthcare costs due to the high levels of pollution in Houston and Harris County.

    This is BUSINESS b****ing about it, not some group of left wing radical environmentalists. So, the next time you think pollution is no big deal, and given that asthmatic kids with no healtcare don't seem to sway your opinion, realize that your taxes WILL increase and job growth WILL decrease if the pollution issue isn't solved and quickly. Plain and simple. Bottom line.
     
  20. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Great post, Jeff, you know quite a bit about the construction situation. I'm glad we agree on Lee Brown.

    Excellent! Emphasizing finality of argument is a tactic I enjoy using. Is this your answer to CASE CLOSED? Clever.
     

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