Well, one of the many reasons for accountability is to limit someone from making multiple mistakes or compounding an existing problem. cough, bush, cough This is insane.
ok, i understand it as a deturrent for the future. but again, that doesnt help with the current situation. is it really insane? or did i just blow your mind? my point is only that just holding someone accountable doesnt resolve the issues at hand.
What was insane was your apparent lack of understanding regarding the role and importance of accountability - I was aghast that this had to be explained. It has nothing to do with resolving a screw-up. Accountability provides several things: 1) The aforementioned lowered probability of further mistakes from the same people. EDIT: I guess this does impact resolutions, to a certain extent. 2) Serves as a warning to others, which will accordingly force those others to think a little more critically before acting. 3) Forces an acknowledgement of the failure of a previous action, so that future plans address the correct scenario. All of which are sorely needed in the Iraq quagmire.
Well I guess this confirms it -- Report: In Meeting, ‘Wild-Eyed’ Bush Thumped Chest While Repeating ‘I Am The President!’ Georgie Anne Geyer writes today in the Dallas Morning News about President Bush’s strange behavior during a recent meeting with “[f]riends of his from Texas.” But by all reports, President Bush is more convinced than ever of his righteousness. Friends of his from Texas were shocked recently to find him nearly wild-eyed, thumping himself on the chest three times while he repeated “I am the president!” He also made it clear he was setting Iraq up so his successor could not get out of “our country’s destiny.” http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcon...N-geyer_31edi.ART.State.Edition1.4370227.html
ok. but 1 doesnt help with the current situation. at least not directly. like i said, its a deturent for the future. 2- warning for other is also forward looking. not the present. 3- a failure can be acknowledge without accountability but again, it doesnt directly help the current situation. accountability is great and all and its certainly a buzz word when talking about iraq but that can wait, actions...good, smart actions need to be taken now.
You are wrong, wrong, wrong: "good, smart actions" need accountability to occur. Directly helps in bettering present actions. Directly helps in bettering present actions. Most definitely helps one determine the best course of action. It's about coming up with the RIGHT course of action. No direct influence on the resolution itself per say, but absolutely fundamental to determining what action to take and how. But don't let me get you down donkey - if you really think that accountability is abstract with regard to "moving forward" - I can't say much other than "wow - you'd fit right in at the white house."
well while some people are in offices and doing interviews and going through historic data...our boys that are dodging bullets and bombs will sleep well at night knowing that someone will be held accountable for why they are there. Thank god! No doubt, accountability will help stabilize the 'insugent' attacks, help the iraqi govt sustain itself and allow iraq to become a prosperous country. but go ahead. point the finger while boots on the ground need action.
preaching to the choir. funny. we are talking about why there should and shouldnt be a base built...and then it gets into an accountability debate and whether they should even be there? that crap is independant of whether a base should be built...and it probably will be and more than likely always was anticipated.
RMT may have illustrated it better, but I was wondering how you think this idea of Bush's, the latest spin, that is, on this humongous failure of foreign policy, is going to work? Do you think we can simply plop down several bases in the country, whether they are being built now, or not, and the fact that the most likely long term (a stretch, I know... long term not being applicable to any Iraq government I can see) Iraqi government would be adamantly opposed to them, that those bases will be free to operate? That they won't be magnets for attack? That they will do us any good if the country doesn't want them and they are under constant assault? As I said earlier, have you looked at a map, lately, at all? Are you aware of the history of Indochina re the French after WWII, and the United States after LBJ went whole-hog in Vietnam? What happened to the French bases? What happened to the American bases? And as has been pointed out here by others, what on earth does Iraq have in common with South Korea? You keep posing questions... why not give us some answers? Bush obviously has none. Give us your suggestions. D&D. Replicant on the Prairie.
how about 14 bases and the largest embassy in the world? the only reason we are building bases in iraq is because the bush family friends/business partners, the saudis kicked us out of saudi arabia. bush gave osama EXACTLY what he wanted w/ that one.
Bringing it back on subject and since I'm late to this thread. Do the Iraqi's opinions matter on this? Most of your examples relate to what the US sees as potential threats and not what the Iraqis might. Considering that the Iraqi parliment came close to passing a resolution recently asking the US to leave I'm guessing that most Iraqis don't like the idea of permanent bases.
It might make them feel better that someone is answering for the monumental screwups they're having to deal with.
all very good points and things to consider. And i will keep posting questions, why not? Since when did questions become a bad thing? Personally i like to ask questions. Why dont i give answers? because i dont pretend that i have all the answers. Sure, some things i feel strong about but i always accept the ability to be wrong. Every been wrong? happened to me before. I dont know if bush is suppose to have these answers, hell i dont know of any 1 man that has all these answers. Like we mentioned earlier, its a mess. Its complex. Its not only about what to do now and respond to the current threats but to also consider the future and precautionary steps to cover your back. It will take a lot of people's expertise and a lot of discussion. And from my point of view, building a few bases seems like the conservative and prudent thing to do and personally i think that there will be problems in that area for a long time and one should be prepared to handle any them if they should arise. im not one that things just b/c we/they leave things are going to be hunky-dorey. Now of course there will be problems with proposed base building and it will more than likely be a target, but bases on foreign soil often are...especially relatively hostile ones. ANd maybe those bases fail in the future but by i think the cost benefits of all the potential scenarios added up would be on the side of benefit. i dont know if thats the kind of answer you want, but its my current views on the situation. well anything worth doing is worth doing right...no? maybe. I dont know where all the military bases are at in the middle east but to my knowledge there are not that many and the ones that are there have a limited free range of flight b/c other countries may not grant airspace. I;ve mentioned it before, but from the beginning i thought that at least one factor to going to iraq was the ability for the US to gain a strategic location in the middle east. Some may argue for oil, which of course played some part in it but im not going to go so far and say its all for oil. I think another part was the military positioning. of course their opinions matter. But i was approaching it from the side i know. I dont know what the iraqis want and cant even begin to imagine their reasoning. from my perspective, i would think that having someone to make sure the govt doesnt completely get toppled would be a good thing. But on the other i see how they dont want the US being there. i dont quite understand that reasoning b/c like i said before i think without US presence there i think things could get seriously out of control. I'd be interested to see who voted for them to go and who voted them to say, plus their political affiliations. Meaning, if the US did leave there is a huge opportunity for a few ambitious guys to gain a ton of power and wealth...and not necessarily good guys. very well could.. But lets be clear, im not saying that you dont find out who made what decisions, why and were they good? I have no problems with accountability. My only point was only that finding a person to put the blame too doesnt necessarily very much when we are talking boots on the ground (i.e. the actual operations going on in hostile areas)...know what i mean? for example, i dont think bombings will stop when we find someone 'accountable'. etc/
what the hell has our government done right with regards to iraq? this is an absolutely disgusting and immoral line of reasoning. in your mind this justifies the hundreds of thousands of innocent people who have been killed and the millions who have been directly affected? we were given several reasons by the cheney administration for invading iraq, but i dont remember any of them having anything to do with the need to establish bases in the middle east. bin laden wanted us out of saudi and the cheney administration gave him exactly what he wanted - isnt that catering to the terrorists? wouldnt that be "cutting and running"? ironic, coming from someone who has said that we would have all these problems if people didnt complain so much.
Guy walks into a bar, sits down and yells at the bartender.. "HEY JACKASS! GET ME A DAMN BEER, WILLYA!" Bartender pops a cap on a longneck and places it in front of the guy. The guy guzzles it down, and yells "HEY YA STINKING JACKASS! GIMME ANOTHER BEER" Bartender pops a cap on a longneck and places it in front of the guy. The guy guzzles it down, and yells "HEY YA STUPID FREAKING JACKASS! GIMME ANOTHER BEER RIGHT NOW" Bartender pops a cap on a longneck and places it in front of the guy. The guy guzzles it down and walks off to the bathroom. Another guy sitting at the bar says to the bartender "Hey man! Why do you let him call you that" The bartender replies.... "HEE-HAW!! HEE-HAW!! HEE-HAWLWAYS CALLS ME THAT!!"
it was just an expression. relax. will people stop telling me what in my mind. sweet jesus. hey, if you want me to talk about what 'should' be and be all ethical and PC then fine. we can talk about white doves and fuzzy bunnies. hey, lets start an ethics thread then, i'd love to it... was my minor. BUt this is the real world. I didnt say it justifies anything, i was only offering what may or may not have been thought about. ANd like it or not, such things are considered. well if they dont say it it must not be true right? come one. You are smart enough to know that 'we' dont get told whats really being duiscussed behind closed doors. Its niave to think that we are fully informed. ???
lol. i use to tell that joke all the time! i think i was in elementary, but the good ones never die..i guess
