In case anyone is confused about the Catholic position, Catholics do not believe that gays choose to be that way. Nor do we believe that being gay is immoral. And I don't have a problem with gay priests being gay. The Catholic position and the "redneck" position are different.
I think it's sad that you can't make your own decision here. Do you follow everything the Vatican says? They are against the use of condoms. Are you never going to use one? You realize the Pope is human and fallable right? Let me know when you find a couple of them. I've read most of "What the Bible..." and "Same Sex Unions..." and just bits of the rest. Is there just one Theologica or are there multiple "versions" of it like the Bible? twhy, I don't understand how you can be so certain about the origins of the universe based on the teachings of Catholiscience. The Catholic Church didn't even accept the Big Bang theory until 1951. This is the same church that labeled Copernicus immoral for believing the Earth revolves around the sun. The same one that imprisoned Gallileo for agreeing with him. The same one that burned d'Ascoli for saying the world is round not flat. And the same one that dismissed Darwin's theory of evolution until 1996. Are financial reasons the only reason why you got married? Most of us aren't in a pursuit of an alternative anything. We just want to live our lives like everyone else.
NB Catholic position :- Although being Homosexual is not a sin, the sex act is. Does that mean if you dont have Homosexual sex then you are not Homosexual? Or does being Homosexual mean that you prefere the company of men over the company of women,[ or vice versa], not that you have sex with your own gender?
So your reason to vote against gay marriage is procreation? We don't require people who marry to procreate. We don't require people who procreate to marry. We allow infertile men to marry. We allow post-menapausal women to marry. Neither can procreate so why let them get married? Is marriage just about propogating the species? Wouldn't men who have multiple partners be more efficient at this? (see Shawn Kemp) Is our world so dangerously underpopulated that this is even an issue? Vote however you want to but at least have a better reason than that.
Can someone give an update on the reasons why homosexuals should not be allowed to marry or engage in civil unions? KingCheetah is right... we have yet to see a good reason why homosexuals should be prohibited from marrying. We have the slippery slope (fallacy, by the way) arguments where the claim is made that if any two consenting adults are allowed to marry in what way will be able to prohibit two consenting related adults from marrying. I believe Timing and Mrs. JB have responded about govt. response/govt. interest in keeping related individuals from marrying. The polygamy concern is the epitome of the slippery slope argument (though I have nothing against polygamy, since I actually believe in the freedom of religion). One argument that I've noticed is the claim that homosexuals simply can't have children, and so they cannot be allowed to marry. This argument is absurd, of course, as others have noted that there are those of us that do or do not have children and that we may or may not be married. Let's call this the penis stockroom argument. You only receive your clamp-on penis when you become married, and thus much is made of the right to have a penis... as they are in high demand. When you get your penis, you must use it for procreation... and thus marriage and procreation go hand in hand. Perhaps we could penalize married heterosexuals such as myself, for not using our penises to impregnate our wives in a timely fashion. Maybe in the married procreation world, we could have investigators go around auditing men that have not impregnated their women. Do you have your penis on you? Are you engaging in the clamp-on penis black market? We don't want unmarried individuals capable of engaging in coitus. If people were to divorce, that is if Pope George II doesn't make divorce illegal, but if people were to divorce, of course they would have to turn in their clamp-on penis... since marriage is only about procreation and procreation only occurs in the community of marriage. What other arguments are there? Again, we have the Catholic church, guilty of covering up the molestation of children making sure that their stance is known. Not only should their pedophilic priests be prohibited from marrying. Homosexuals should not be allowed to marry either. But what other arguments are there? Incidentally, I have yet to see a response to the question: Why are 'states-rights' conservatives supporting the President's attempt to interfere with state decisions on this subject? incidentally bamma, I didn't see your response earlier, but your show of knowledge re: high school civics classes is duly noted. I however, wasn't talking about an amendment to the constitution, I was referring to the quote where Bush discusses using administration lawyers to "fig'r all dis out". Since he had already suggested that an amendment 'might not be necessary', I assumed that he was discussing another mechanism. What mechanism do you think he was talking about, btw?
Um OK. I asked for a reason not a cheesy movie trailer tag line. I really don't understand what you are trying to say there.
ROTFL. You're patient and persistent, but you'll eventually get a response "I can't explain" blah blah blah. It simply means "I'm engaging in an illogical argument in which I am begging the question that homosexuals simply should not be allowed to marry". If you're really patient outlaw, maybe you'll get a response like "because I said so".
When a Man Legally Loves a Woman as Nature Intended starring George W. Bush & Laura Bush rated G (warning: pasty white people will wear shorts in this film; please bring sunglasses for your children)
I hardly watch any movies at all, let alone cheesy ones. I'm sure you understand what I said. Funny how you should mention trailer tag. It sounds like some kind of dirty, inside joke .
Achebe- I can only say that I wish you peace because you sound like a very confused and angry individual, who knows nothing about my church yet continues to slam it.... You are being a jerk. Stop. Outlaw- The Pope is infallable in matters of theology. MAtters of science they have been wrong, and they admitted that and set course to the truth. As far as theology changing, because I know thats what you are going to say next, theology just reaches greater understanding of the truths of the trinity as the human mind is able to grasp and reason out from the first precepts of faith given through divine revelation... For instance, the churches stance on the Virgin Mary, wasn't made doctrine until the 1800's... yet she was always a virgin, it just wasn't developed far enough in terms of theology until Duns Scotus started thinking about it circa Thomas Aquinas. So to answer your question, yes I must go with my church. But you will notice that it says homosexual acts, and not just being a homosexual, which is what I have contended the whole time... Love, in my understanding, goes outside oneself to also worship God. Its not just personal satisfaction, there is something more, caritas, or charity. No, I've never used a condom... I don't plan on it, I don't plan on having sex until I'm married and all that stuff. Its just learning self control. Very good for becoming at peace with oneself. I wish you peace man.
Peace dude to you too. Well I know a bit about your church, since I spent my youth split amongst the Catholic and one holy Catholic and apostolic church. Throw in some baklava and you'll understand why I became confused and angry BTW, did I say anything incorrect about your church? Doesn't it feel strange and confusing for you to be a member of a church that has ruined the lives of so many people? Doesn't it feel completely ridiculous to preach from the rubble? Hey wait, I've got an idea... maybe we can sell some indulgences to all of the pedophilic priests... you know, a get out of eternal damnation card for molesting little children. Or maybe, we can stand here and preach from the rubble: mawwwwiage is betwwween a woomman and aa mand
Where do you want me to start?!!! Do you think the church really was in support of the behavior of some bad priests, bad anybody who have been organized with it? You don't even look at the theology, which has remained the same... The church acknowledges the wrongs that have happened, but they did not come from the church but rather bad members in the church.... If you could site a place in the Catechism of the Catholic Church where it says priests have to be pedophiles and sell indulgences, I'd really like to see that... Part of the problem in America came with Vietnam... you look at all the priests who have problems and they are all around the same age, people who simply picked their vocation based on the wrong reasons... part of the American Idea that everything should be a democracy, even the church.... but its not! These problems arent problems anywhere but the American branch of the Church (which I do have my problems with)... If you think I stand in rubble when I'm in mass with my friends, family, and community, then that is some pretty good rubble to stand in... Maybe you should take a trip to Rome and stand upon the steps of St. Peter's, gaze up at the Baldacare and think a little bit about what it all means... Once more, I wish you peace, take a hint from your handle, "Hot Fire begets cold impotent ash," TFA.
Great post twhy. I wish you peace too. Incidentally, I was in Rome during Jubilee. My visit was a coincidence, but I did visit the four (and several more).
so if science discovers a gay gene do you think the church will recant its position? I doubt it. so you and your future wife will never use a condom or any kind of birth control? good luck with your 15 kids buddy. really though, i'm sick of hearing this hate the sin, love the sinner crap. what the hell do you expect us to do? stay celebate forever? that's worked out real well for the priests. by the way I was your age when I lost my virginity so don't think you are setting any world records in that department. no you don't. peace = happiness. you don't care about my happiness and in fact are actively seeking to deny mine and that of millions of others just because some senile old man in Italy says so. So please save your platitudes for someone else cause I aint buying.
