^ Not sure what you mean by that Sam, but I just don't like posters who cry about something in one thread and then does it in another thread worse. But then again, maybe I'm expecting too much from a forum.
Do you think I care if people on a bbs message board think i'm an idiot? I have a lot of fun on here. Its all in good fun. The Texans ARE NOT drafting a quarterback with the #1 overall pick. I think many of us realize that. And its quite entertaining to see how many think they they are even considering drafing VY, much less a QB. I'm fighting the good fight. I know many many agree with me, but they are just keeping quiet. Go read any other message board, go read the aggie message board. There is even a thread over there about they boycotting 610 because of their sickening longhorn love. Houston, Texas is not made up of Longhorns only. It is made up of Horns, Aggies, Cougers, Owls, Red Raiders, and Lumberjacks to name a few. I'm a Couger, and i'm a bit upset that UH basketball isn't getting more coverage on 610 so I'm starting to side with the Aggies on their stance. That being said, i'm also a Houston Texan fan. Not die hard, because they haven't been around long enough, but I want them to do whats right, not whats "Popular". So don't tell me to "make my case for Bush and leave it at that", if aren't telling MadMax to "make his case and leave it as well". Hell, do you have any idea how many times he's posted in this thread? Even the admin of the freaking board pointed it out, and took a shot at him, above. So don't call me an idiot. I was wrong about the outcome of the USC Texas game, along with thousands of others in this world and the sports betting world. Big deal. Texas won by 3 on a last second touchdown. I'm such an idiot. As long as MadMax & co. bring up their case for VY to the Texans, I will be right there defending my stance for drafting Bush. I'm fighting the good fight for myself and for those who choose to not speak up.
Look, let's say that LenDale is a 10 at running inside and an 8 at going outside. Clearly Bush is a 10 going outside and say he is an 8 going inside. If you have both on the same team, why not let each do what they do best. It doesn't mean that White cannot run outside or that Bush cannot run inside. I keep pointing out Sanders, Martin, Faulk, Smith, ect because people keep saying "There's no way he can run inside" or "There is no way he can take the pounding" If these guys did it, I don't see why he can't. Just because he did not do it USC doesn't mean he cannot do it all. I think part of good coaching is letting guys do what they do best, but that doesn't mean that they cannot do the other at all (if that makes sense). White had a terrific game against Texas (I think) becuase they are a smallish but fast D, he did not have the same luck against ND, which has more size on D. Bush was the guy that killed them (I am a HUGE ND fan). Running inside is nothing more than seeing the hole and hitting it hard. That is all there is to it (I used to play some RB and QB). You don't have to run guys over to be a good inside runner, you just have to have good vision to find the hole and have enough discipline to hit it. Following blockers and setting up blocks is the same whether you are inside or outside. Again Dunn is a terrific inside runner and he is smaller than Bush. BTW, if you still have the game on tape (rose bowl) go back to I believe the 1st and watch Bush aboslutely run over one of the DBs for Texas. If they hire Kubiak (which I hope they do) we will use a zone blocking scheme. All the backs have to do is find a crease and hit it. With Bush's speed I can guarantee there will be ALOT of cutback lanes because if you don't bust ass to the outside to cut him off then he WILL get the corner on you. The bottom line with any draft prospect Bush, Young etc.. is NO ONE knows until they get to pros. I just get a little tired of people making silly comparisons, and I bet have the people haven't seen more than the Rose Bowl as a sample size. I will tell you this, I have a feeling Bush will post some absurd 40 and T drill times if they even let run.
Again, I think that you did not see Bush go between the tackles because they had LenDale. LenDale may be a better inside runner, but that doesn't mean Bush cannot do it. If I were coaching and had a hoss like White and speed freak like Bush I would probably use them the same way USC. That doesn't mean White cannot get to the corner or that Bush cannot go between the tackles.
Yes, it is just about impossible if you live in H-Town to have an unbiased opinion. That's a problem if it's the wrong opinion. Hakeem was a very biased opinion also. Was it the wrong opinion? A biased opinion is not always the wrong opinion. Here would be a great poll question to run nationwide. Do you think that Vince Young will be a superstar game changing quarterback in the NFL? Yes or No. I would bet that 75% of the nation would vote Yes. The question the Texans will be answering is who will help us win more games and more Super Bowls, Vince or Reggie? That's it. If they draft Reggie, and leave Carr as our starting QB, they are saying they think they will win more games and more Super Bowls than if they draft any other player and make what other ancillary moves to go along with that draft pick. In the Hakeem MJ draft, common sense said we should go with Hakeem, the big man over the MJ the swingman. All things being equal you always take big over small. In that case, heads and hearts agreed. But what if Hakeem were from Chapel Hill and MJ were from Houston? Heads would have said Hakeem, hearts would have said MJ. The great what if. What would the Rockets have done? They'd probably have still drafted Hakeem. After all, they left Rashard crying in the green room. No reason to think they would have taken MJ over Hakeem. Except.........................................can you imagine the public outcry if MJ were from here and the Rockets didn't draft him and he went to Chicago and won 6 championships? Yeah, we would have still had our 2 rings. But would we be content with that? Nope, we'd always be bringing up the fact that we could've had MJ and gotten 6. By the same token, if MJ had been rated just a little bit better than Hakeem and if Hakeem had been rated as questionmark and as a toss up with Sam Bowie over who was the better player, the fans of Houston would still have been screaming for Akeem the Dream.......just like they were anyway. And you know what........we would still be happy with our 2 rings......just like we are now. And you know what........if we didn't have a ring to show for Hakeem's career............we would all say, "Oh well, we coulda won those 6 rings with Jordan.....but there was no way the Rockets could pass up on the local product..Phi Slamma Jamma, etc. etc. etc. We would have justified Hakeem's career and his selection by our local team. Even if Hakeem and Sam Bowie traded places, and Bowie been the player that was great and Hakeem the player whose career was cut short, we would all look back at that draft with the "Oh well, we had to do it." It would not cause us to not be fans of our team. Unless one thing. Unless we had an owner the equivalent of Donald Sterling who didn't care about winning. But we didn't and we don't. That's what makes the difference. Winning owners and general managers keep making the changes necessary to produce winners. We would have still won enough games to have a solid fan base, and we would have still had good players here, even if Hakeem blew out a knee his rookie season and never played again. You see, there is this synergy that comes along only every so often. A synergy that is unique to Lebron James and his hometown Cleveland Cavaliers, Hakeem and the Rockets, Clemens and the Astros, where an outstanding athlete with superstar potential or who is a superstar already comes along with the opportunity to be the name on the face of the local franchise. Yeah, Lebron may blow out a knee and never be the same player while Carmelo goes on to win multiple rings. So what. The Cavaliers made the right choice, no matter what the results will be in the future. They drafted the hometown superstar. There wasn't even a debate. Even though all the junk was going on with his mother and the big SUV and the autographed merchandise, etc. etc. Even though Melo was in college winning a national championship. They took the hometown superstar. Yeah, Roger might eat up $15-$20 million of salary next year and blow out his rotator cuff the first time he steps on the mound in June. But you gotta sign him up and take the risk if you can get him. Yeah, Hakeem could have been Sam Bowie, yeah, he could have bolted during his contract negotiations, yeah, MJ could have not retired and the Rockets never won anything. I just don't see how the Texans are going to be able to get around drafting Vince Young. If the kid goes to Tennessee and wins a couple Super Bowls, the franchise will kick itself and will have to listen a ton of negative sentiment from the locals for at least a couple decades. By the same token, if the kid stays in Houston and plays for the Texans, the stadium will be sold out for every game he is barking behind center, win or lose, and if he falls on his face and we have to start over again, the fan base as a whole will say, "Oh well, we had to take him, he's from Houston.." And we'll start over again rooting for our team to become champions. The franchise won't have a negative mark on it. By the same token, if the Texans draft Bush, and Young goes elsewhere, the Texans are going to have to significantly outperform whatever team Young is playing on for the period of Young's career. Otherwise the fans will be constantly reminding the franchise about what could have been. Some things are just bigger than numbers on a stat sheet. Some things cannot be quantified with stop watches, and salary slots, and depth charts. This is one of dem things. How could the Texans not take this kid, with all the potential, with all the risk of failure, and eliminate the "what ifs..." for the next couple decades?? The Texans need to draft Vince Young. It could turn out great, you never know.
Running inside is more than seeing the hold and hitting it hard. For one thing, you want a running back that consistently fall forward after taking a hit. The most important thing is that he needs to be able to stay healthy if he runs inside. Otherwise, we end up with a Ki-Jana Carter. Personally, I'd rather have a runner that can get 3-5 yards on each carry than to have one that gets 1-3 and can break out a long run every once in a while. A power running game is so vital to getting 1st downs and getting more favorable 3rd down situations. I'm not making any generalizations about Bush here, but I think LenDale is that 3-5 yards per carry runner. I only wish there was a drill at the combine that can tell the Texans how durable a player is because I don't think anyone knows just how durable RB is going to be.
I don't really see your beef reggie. You do know that Texas won and are the National Champs, right? This is every Longhorn fan's bragging right until someone knocks them off. Vince won the game, fans are excited about it. Let it go. If the Cougars did something to be worth talking about, maybe they would get more attention. Sucking against Kansas really doesn't deserve that much airtime. I like Bush because I don't want the Texans to start over. I want them to build. I think Bush would be a great step in the right direction. Actually, I am more of a fan of selling off the top pick for more future picks, but I don't think the Texans will do that. If they take VY, I'm still going to root for them but I'll feel like we ended up right back at square one.
You must have LOVED Eddie George! Don't underestimate the importance of having HR hitter as well though. There were several games that we would have run if DD had more break away speed. You also bring up a good point wtih durability. No one knows about ANY RB. Carter was a big dude and pretty good inside runner and blew his knee out a couple of times and was done. The one thing about the shifty backs is that they seem to be able to avoid the big hit. I would be fine if they traded down and got a couple of picks for our top pick and draft White. I think he will be a good one. I like all different types of RBs my two all time favorites were Bo and Earl. I do like watching Reggie run though. I think if they did take Bush I would like to see Wells used as a FB. No one uses the FB anymore. One of the reasons SF was so good back in the day is you had to defend the WRs, TE, HB, AND FB. Rathman was great to watch too.
OK, I'll lighten up a bit. Madmax is open to changing his mind, that what was pointed out. Madmax posts with some humility as well. But what is odd to me is this, you said... Given you said VY is the best you have seen at the D1 level why would you want the Texans to lock into Bush with the #1 pick without fully evaluting the best college football quarterback you have ever seen? As an aside I think there is more anti-VY stuff in Texas than anywhere (well maybe in Oklahoma and Arkansas too). There are a lot of people that hate the Longhorns. Most others outside of Texas are just saying, damn, that is the best college football player I have ever seen.
wow...this is getting a little more personal than i'd hoped for a football discussion. oh, well. i don't recall asking you to value or respect my opinion. it's really not a condition precedent to my posting here. you're free to disagree as vehemently as you wish. whether you value it or not, my opinion is still my opinion.
Running inside is a heck of lot more than hitting a hole fast and hard at the pro level. How many backs are too impatient to wait for the hole to develop and reading the key blocks, how many are too indecisive, and what a fine line it is. I keep pointing out Sanders, Martin, Faulk, Smith because they showed that kind of instinctive between the tackles ability as an everydown workhorse back in college. Bush might develop it, or he might not. Dunn is small yes, but he always was terrific in close space and instinctively reading blocks--all the way from FSU to Florida high school days. Bush's style really is quite different. Doesn't mean he can't adapt, but it should not be assumed. Emmitt Smith and Walter Payton, two of the top 4 backs of all time, wouldn't have impressed in 40 yard dashes or drills. They also got caught behind a lot. But what they brought (relentless 1st down churning, primarily between the tackles) is far more important as an NFL RB than breakway speed and open field moves. I think there are a lot bigger questions about Reggie Bush being a great pro back than people realize. I am not saying he won't be a great one, but there are missing pieces of evidence right now, there are leaps of faith one must make. Had he been a relentless TB who carried the ball over and over and wearing down opponents along withg his open field explosiveness like LT or Faulk or Sanders or Dorsett showed I'd feel much mroe confident in him as a #1 overall pick. But I also am open minded. If Bush shows phenom workouts (4.25 40, 500lb squats) perhaps you take him overall #1 despite some areas you just don't know about and can't know about because his real time football career is over until the draft (durability as a workhorse, between the tackles instincts). Likewise if VY arm and/or mental abilities are sub-par for a Pro QB that further makes the case for Bush greater. Either way folks should be open minded and I think way too many people are dismissive about VY. Certainly there was no doubt who the best college football was last year and a good case can be made no college player has ever shown the athleticism, size, compusure and leadership that VY flashed. Those are things were evident not just on the track or from inidividual workouts but what was done on the field, and how one could not at least consider him as an overall #1 does not make sense to me. "Need" here is irrelevant. If you think you have a guy somewhere between Joe Montana and John Elway you take him regardless who your current QB is. If you think VY has things that will keep him from the that level, but Bush projects as between Faulk/Sanders as an NFLer you take him. If they both are at that level you take VY, because after all, he is a quarterback.
Just a thought to ponder: Let's say that ESPN doesn't drastically impact the Heisman voting after Fresno State(Vince was ahead all season until then by most reports), and Vince wins the Heisman, along with the NC. We wouldn't even be having this discussion.
Yea espn decided the heisman , hahaahaha. Thats what a bitter person will use as an excuse. it wasn't because Bush won it , Vince had his chance to outshine Bush against the worse defense in college football (my aggies) and he sucked it up. He did outshine him in the rose bowl, but it was too late then. PS What does the heisman have to do with the #1 pick?
Here is one for you: Bush in 06! You can bet the farm on that. Im 99.9999999999% sure we will take him.
So you're trying to form a foundation for a supposedly logical argument by referencing a thread from Texags? That's funny stuff. Vince's performance against A&M wasn't any worse than Bush's performance against California and a few other teams. You just didn't hear about it for days on ESPN.
Oh yeah sig bets to anybody who thinks it won't be Bush Time in 06. I'll put as many sigs as I can put if im wrong.
