mcmark.. i thought the surpreme court ruled to stop the recount which made the results stand.. . if im wrong about that. the count that they finished had him with more votes so as far as im concerned he won
bnb.. that is my point exactly. Although I don't go to yale, I do go to a top 20 school and I know the stereotype that a lot of people have about.. "all those people at top schools just got in because their family went there".. even if his family played a role in him getting in, you still have to be somewhat smart. They don't let in someone "very dumb" just because of their family. And if he got through the admissions process because of his family then he still had to pass courses. If they just gave him the degree without him passing then that would mean the university has no integrity.. but we wouldnt want to say that would we since kerry went there too????????? once again the fact that he was a c student (according to someone on here) still makes him a lot smarter than the average person.. the average college student with a 4.0 at a average college would be lucky to pull a c at a top 20 school.
RF, sorry, that's just not true. Grade inflation is a true epidemic problem at places like Stanford. Many of the students work hard, but others do not, and the average grades are ridiculous. It's up to individual professors. Some of the C's I give, for instance, at my top 8,459 school ( ) would certainly be B's at some "top schools." I know because I compare notes with the profs, and they don't care about the grades. They don't want hassles. Anyway, sorry for the side-note. It's not important. But at any rate, I am convinced a sub-standard intellect could get Cs at Yale. That is not to say Walker Bush is sub-standard, but it's possible.
b-bob.. I don't think grade inflation was as big of a problem back then as it is now.. then again I also believe the work he is doing at yale is substantically harder than at most universities so the sub intellect woudln't even be near the c category
You really don't have to be all that intelligent to pull off a C average, especially in undergrad. Not at all. Put in a decent amount of effort, and anyone who is remotely salient should pull it off. Or buy papers, ace them, and do fair to middling on tests, even afford to bomb a few and still pull a C overall. Ivy league schools aren't any harder than anywhere else at the midway-level, it's just at the very top you're competing with many of the very best. But a C at Yale or Harvard isn't any harder than a C at Florida State...ok, maybe a bad example, but you get my drift. An A is possibly harder, but not a C.
sorry about the double post.. but I just do not believe that the paper written at whatever school would get a c there and a b at a top school.. the "average paper" would be substantially better at the top school. Unless you want me to believe that the top 20 ones dont do any better but they get higher grades. Grades might be inflated sometimes, but I think the quality level is a lot higher to begin with. I know that they might raise the average grade so it won't be c's.. but I still contend that the average work would have been better to begin with. I just cant' see a person who gets a C at x university turning it into yale and getting a higher grade. They might have grade inflation, but the work quality is still better to begin with
It's all academic (rimshot!), because his academic records are sealed. We are not allowed to know his grades. The "C" student comes from eyewitnesses who have described him. For all we know, he was summa c*m laude or on academic probation. ps -- RF, don't want to go on about this really, but some of the students I've given B's and C's to (at a smallish liberal arts school, considered tier 2), are now kicking major ass in top-flight graduate schools (physics) at Berkeley, Cornell, and Harvard. In general, you are correct in that submitted work will be better at better schools. Absolutely. But the grades are largely without meaning unless you know the individual professors, programs and classes. That is the bottom line truth as I see it. Whatever.
I go with Gale Sheehy who did a lengthy account of Bush's problems, going all the way back to when he failed to get into St. John's , a prominent Houston private highschool. He had to go to Kinkaid, where sheer wealth apparently counts more. Bush is not really unintelligent in some ways. His IQ is pretty good. It is just that he has dyslexia and ADD. His dyslexia and problems with words is of course very evident. He cannot focus on material, especially written for more than about 20 minutes. Sheehy goes on to say how he has done a brilliant job of compensating for learning disabilities. According to Sheehy , these folks become exceptionally good as nonverbal cues. Bush is very good at first impressions and in brief social encounters. The 20 minute attention span of course does make it hard to acquire in depth info. Apparently he tries to limit the length of meetings also as that becomes a problem unless there is a a strong socializing aspect to it. His CEO style of delegating and having his news digested by those he trusts is apparently necessary.
macbeth... I understand what you are saying. I just don't buy it because I think the actual work is substantially harder. I don't think you could have people from any university who are pulling c's go to yale and pull a c as well. I understand what you are saying, but from my experience.. seeing what other schools covered and taking a class last summer I just can't see them as being the same difficulty. I think someone making a C at x university would be making a d or f at yale. Heck I know the average work is harder.. I'm trying to get a class to take this summer in Houston and I can't even find one that will count because they don't even require calc for classes that I dont know how in the world you could take them without calc.
Well, while we're derailing this thread,... what classes are you taking that require Calc, and may I say "huzzah!" for you, sir.
Never heard that before; interesting. DOesn't explain some elemtns ( condescending attitude when making sophomoric points, thinly veiled triumph when making mediocre jokes, etc.) but does explain others. You would think, though, that he would be better on his feet, for limited periods, than he is.
b-bob.. okay. I'll just end it by saying I agree with you that the actual grades dont mean anything specific my point was just that I think the work turned in that gets a C is higher quality then the work that is turned in on average at other schools.. just because you are dealing with the top students.. I agree with you on the inflation thing.. this is just a touchy topic for me because with all the stuff about harvards 91% honors etc etc .. I have heard quite a bit about all the top 20 schools inflate and blah blah.. and two years in.. I have yet to see this inflation here.. so if we are going to be stereotyped I want lots of inflation on my grade!
I don't think anyone is suggesting George was a scholar. I just take issue those who suggest he is not intelligent. I think you are underestimating him -- and to your detriment. It's a strangely comforting stereotype that's been repeated all too often. Misguided, maybe. But certainly not dumb. Some of his policies, however, could definitely be described as idiotic. And as far as that having a bearing on whether he'd be a good drinking buddy, i just don't see it. He strikes me as open, candid and personable. Much more so that Gore, Dole, Kerry, Cheney, Rove and others. I think it would be a hoot. Interesting insight from two of our professors about the aptitude of student they routinely pass.
Can't speak directly about Yale right now, although friends have been there in the past, but one of my better friends is teaching at Harvard as we speak ( well, maybe not literally) and he says the median grade expectation is the same as anywhere. Pre-req's differ from school to school, and a limited comparison like that won't really tell you much on an overall scale. ( BTW, what classes are you talking about? Antithetical to my field, but still curious.) Where you will see a difference is if you go to one of the top British schools, wherein they abhore 'liberal education', and instead concentrate on a specific plane to such a degree that the average student there knows infinitely more about his particular area of study than an above average student in almost any other school.
b-bob.. intermediate microeconomic and macroeconomic theory. I was wanting to take one this summer, but they require calc at Vanderbilt so the other school I take it at has to require calc as well for it to count. Rice looks to be my only option, but it is kind of late at this point. I had planned on just taking another class at university of houston, but then today I find the syllabus online and what do you know.. they only meet the first day and then just turn in papers and never have class again.. no way in the world is that going to get approved here so that is out the window. The experience I was speaking of is I took a class at UH last year, that according to the students was a hard class and a lot of them did horribly in it, but I ended up with over a 100 average. I know if I took that class here, and did the same work I'd be looking at a C minus or lower. I did no work and got the over a 100 average at UH, and it I was to pull a B for it here it would have taken substantial work.
There's an assumption, I think, that he must be more intelligent than he appears. After repeated observation, however, I'd have to say that his demonstrative intelligence is, honestly, sub-par for an average literate, and way below par for a world leader. There are just too many obvious and subtle signs that betoken not much going on up there.
Any more info on this? The son of a coworker has ADD and it really bothers him. Knowing the president of the US also suffers from ADD would be really comforting to him, i think (even if that prez happens to be GWB!).
macbeth.. harvard bugs me with their 91% honors. I think the avearge grade anywhere should be about a C.. You may be misunderstanding me or maybe not. My point is that I am still quite confident though that the C student here can pull an A at most universities, because they'd move from the average student in their class to the top student in their class. The C student at yale with their 1450 Sat score woudl move to the top student at a lesser academic college is my point
