I will add my voice to those that think at least half the contributors to this forum would demolish Bush in an extemp debate.
No, I just recognize one when I see it. Hey, it's okay to laugh a bit. Have you ever seen a thread with a continuous stream of postings EXCLUSIVELY from me, T_J, bigtexx, bamaslammer, or the formerly conservative posters known as Cohen and MadMax. That's what this thread represents -- only from the LEFT --- and I don't think it is all that unusual. They like to amuse themselves and backslap (ah, The Cadre is Back!) themselves ceremoniously while they demean our country's leaders. Hey, it's America. Do what you want, but remember that includes my right to criticize... and I'm not usually even mean. I tried the French spelling just to see how long it would take to get picked up. I haven't bothered to go back and count the rest of the posts just to see how they stack up. I doubt I will.
Why must the president be portrayed as a superhuman? He's a common American with his own faults. He is not above any of us. I guess the "right" thing to do is judge the man because he doesn't "feel your pain", right? Whether or not he is as articulate as the last guy, you should feel warm and fuzzy inside knowing that you don't have a snooty monarch in office. The man is just as human as you and me, and I've seen him do some pretty human things although it was out of the public and medias eyes.
So now Cohen and Max are "of the left"? Don't you ever get remotely tired of stereotyping people and being stereotyped? You don't think there can be any middle ground about anything? You don't think one can hold a liberal position on some issues, a moderate one on others and (gasp) what is apparently seen as a conservative position on yet another issue or issues? If that's the case, I truly feel sorry for you, as I do for others who revel in being in their corner and sticking to it... come hell or high water.
Cohen and Max aren't looking away from Bush because they've abandoned conservative principles. They're looking away because he has. A lot of true conservatives are.
Cohen and Max aren't molding their sense of right and wrong to fit the leader or the party. They are holding on to what they believe, and seeing what's going on. I mentioned that I disagreed a lot with Clinton, and didn't vote for him, and I felt somewhat betrayed by his lying, but if this were the 90's again, I would most likely have defended Clinton more than I wanted to, because the opposition against him was so virulent. This situation is very different, but I still have to admire people who are willing to stay true to their own principles and not defend someone just because the opposition seems rabid in it's attacks. I like to think that if Clinton carried out the policies that this president is I would probably vote for someone I didn't like in the next election, even if it was a Republican. But I don't know. I might continue to vote third party candidates as I have for the past few presidential elections.
On second thought, maybe a debate with Bush and us isn't such a hot idea... Minutes uncovered of a little known debate between President George W. Bush and a panel of BBS posters: Bush: I'd like to thank you all for coming here tonight to talk about some serious issues. Because I'm serious, and the issues are serious, and it's good to see that Americans are serious too. Because America is serious. First question? Batman Jones: Yes, Mr. President...down glynch, he said me...Mr. President, how can you justify the invasion of Iraq as it was sold to the American people; a defense against WMD, when we have yet to find any? Bush: That's a good question, Mr. Jones...can I call you Batman? Oh...ok...Mr. Jones, I'm glad you asked that. Weapons of mass destruction destroy people, and having that kind of...that kind of potential in the hands of a ruthless, murderous dictator like Saddam Hussein would be to jeapordize the safety of the American people, and that will not happen so long as I'm President. Batman: But...we haven't...there aren't... Bush: I know what you're going to say, Mr. Jones, and you're right. We haven't found any yet. But we haven't looked everywhere yet either. And think about this, Mr. Jones...our fear was that Saddam Hussein would export them to other countries, these weapons of mass destruction, or give them to terrorists. And what do you know? They're nowhere to be found anymore...what do you think of that? Speaks loudly to me...Next question? glynch: Which of the following 4, 326 atrocities you have commited do you consider the worst? Stealing the election, overseeing the industrial complex's establish- Bush: Mr. Glynch? I think you got off to a bad start right there. For one thing, I didn't steal the election. How could I? The election happened all across the country, and we even have overseas voters who are proud of being an American and take the time to vote...and while the elction was going on, I was mostly in Crawford. So it doesn't really hold water, now does it, Mr. Glynch? Next question? rimrocker: Considering the fact that none of our arguments for war have stood the test of time, and you have shifted the argument as events unfolded contrary to your expectations, how can you expect the American people or the people of Iraq to trust your current version? Bush: Which is? Rim: Sorry? Bush: What is my...er...what do YOU ( hah!) consider my current version to be? Rim: Er...bringing democracy to Iraq... Bush: Right! Democracy is good. Do you believe in democracy, Mr. Rocker? I do...and the American people do. And when we go to a place like Iraq, where they have known the pain and suffering of a murderous tyrant like Saddam Hussein, and we can bring them Democracy...well, that's something that'll change the lives of millions forever. Democracy is the best America has to offer...it's what's made us who we are today...and we should share that with everyone, equally. Bamaslammer ( from the back of the room): Goddam Pinko b*stard! Bush: Sorry? I think...anyways, as I was saying, Democracy is the enemy of evil, and our enemies are evil. Our enemies don;t want democracy, and they don't want freedom. They hate freedom, and that's why they hate us. glynch: Might it not also be just a little due to our history of exploiting them and supporting tyrants who we liked over popular leaders we didn't? Bush: Look, America is the best, but we're not perfect. And I would say that, when compared with a murderous tyrant like Saddam Hussein, our mistakes are pretty forgiveable. B-Bob: But, one of the dictators we supported WAS Saddam Hussein. Bush: Next question? B-Bob: Hello? Bush: yes, you there... andymoon: Me? Bush: Yes, you. andymoon: Oh, ok. Speaking about Iraq, how can we continue to legislate morality in the form of selective approval for certain drugs, in complete contradiction to almost every scientific finding? Bush: I...we...Saddam...what? andy: When are our drug laws going to catch up with the 20th century? Bush: Ah-hah! See, mr. Moon, you have your facts wrong, I'm afraid. It's actually the 21st century now. Next question? andy: You never answered my question. Bush: Well, andy, all right, it's like this. Just like terrorists, drugs are evil and insideous. And like terrorists, drugs kill people. Especially in a place where we have freedom, like America, we also are likely to incur the evil that both of these evil, evil things possess. So, yeah I'm going to make terrorists illegal for our safety, and I'll do the same with drugs. I won't apologize for protecting America from evil. Next question? Trader_Jorge: Mr. President, I have but one question for you, and I think it will resolve a lot of our issues, and put the lunatic left wingers to shame...are you the Devil? Bush: No...what? Trader_Jorge: Are you, Mr. President, the Devil? Bush: No, of course not. Trader_Jorge: I didn't think so! VICTORY! Batman: Uh, T_J..no one's ever said... T_J: Can you prove that no one thinks, that none of you left wing nuts think Bush is the Devil? Batman: Of course not, but I... T_J: I ACCEPT YOUR APOLOGY AND ADMISSION OF DEFEAT! Bush: Uh...Next question? Sam Fisher: Mr. President, why do you and your officials continue to treat the torture of Iraqi POWs as isolated events, when the military's own report states specifically that they were systemic, widespread, and under the direction of interrogators? Bush: I'm glad you asked me that, Mr. Fisher. What happened is a terrible, terrible thing, and is simply not what America is about. Now I can't say whether it was a couple of guys, or maybe it was more..maybe a few guys...but however many guys it was, it was dispicable. Sam: But, that's not...it wasn't a few. Bush: Well, we'll have to wait and see on that, Sam, won't we? Woofer: Do you apologize to the Iraqi people? Bush: It was a terrible, terrible thing to happen, and isn't what America's about. Woofer: Yeah, but do you apologize. Bush: Terrible thing. Sam: Why didn't you or your officials react until the pictures came out, despite having reports about this for years, and the Taguba report for moths? Bush: Terrible, un-American thing. We'll take care of it, though, you can be sure. Deckard: Like you've taken care of the investigation into the White House official blowing the CIA cover of the ambassador who reported that the uranium story was bogus? Bush: That was also a terrible thing. Maybe not as terrible as this thing, but also not what America is about. We'll get to the bottom of it, though, you can count on that. Rimrocker: But you said that months ago, there are only a few possible suspects, and they all work for you. What is taking so long? Bush: We're investigating. Next question? Running Raven: Mr. President, can you address the injustice that is perpetrated against Steve Francis on a daily basis around here? Running Raven. Bush: Sorry? Running...? What was that last thing? Sounded like... Running Raven: Running Raven. It's my name. It's just a thing I do. Running Raven. Bush: Well, er...I...Sports are good, because they're American, and if Mr. Francis...I wasn't aware...I used to own the Rangers, you know? But, if there's injustice, you can be sure we'll get to the bottom of it. Next question? Rocket Man Tex: Yes, Mr. Bush, how can you justify the diversion from the war on terror, and the war in Afghanistan, with this wastefull and pointless excercise in Iraq? Bush: Oh, don't fool yourself. We ARE fighting the war in terror in Iraq. Al Queada is there, and they're evil..and there are people there who hate freedom, hate America, and hate Democracy, and they're terrorists. RMT: But AQ is only there since we invaded. Bush: Yes, but Saddam was there, and Saddam was a murderous tyrant. So when we oppose evil...and Saddam was evil...then we are really opposing terrorists, because they're evil too. All of them are evil. Next question? MacBeth: Yes, Mr. President. Considering that America was founded on the principles of freedom, as you have suggested, but that at various times we have excercised an obvious ability to place our own material needs over our supposed priorization of frredom, such as at Wounded Knee, or Nagasaki, for example, and considering that like all other expansionist, Imperial powers, we have disguised our pursuit of our own interests in other people's lands under the banner of freedom and self protection...like the Romans did, when they invaded Gaul, or Scythia, or Macedonia, or like the Spanish did in Peru, or Costa Rica, or.. Bush: Is there a question here? MacBeth:...or Mexico, or like the British did in Inida, during the period of the Raj, or in Africa, specifically Rhodesia and the Zulu region of South East Africa, near what was once the kingdom of Great Zimbabawe, not to be confused with the contemporary... Bush: Er, yes. Next question? MacBeth: ...which is, oddly enough, not on the same site, as happen with many ancient cities, or like in Hisarlik, which is really where Troy was, as discovered by the German archeologist Schleimann, who wasn't actually an archeaologist at all, but a ... BUSH: NEXT QUESTION? MacBeth: ..goes to show that myths are really not all that disconnected from reality, at times, as we also can see in Cadbury, or Tintagel, both of which have revealed... Bush, Trader_Jorge/big_texx, Basso, Bamaslammer, HayesStreet, Clutch, Batman Jones, Sir Jackie Chiles, Mr. Clutch, Uncle-Tim,LHutz (!?!?!), ROXRAN, and john heath: NEXT QUESTION!!!!!! MacBeth: Batman? Batman: Sorry, but...hey, was that john heath? Sir Jackie Chiles: Sorry about that, Mr. President, he's just insecure... Bush: Harumph. Yes, well...heheh...next question? Woofer: Well, why have you chosen to take an unprecedneted stand in the Israeli-Palestinian- Bamaslammer(back of the room): So-called Palestinian! Woofer:..conflict, at a time when our profile in the region is already seen to be anti-Islamic, and anti-Arab? Bush: Well, that's a good question. I have supported the proposition to formulate an independant Palestinian- Bama ( back of the room): So-Called! Bush: ..er..where was I? Bama ( back of the room) : Helping drive the Jews into the sea! Bush: No...I don't think...it's not that easy to bring peace to the region, because you have terrorists, and people who don't want freedom for the Pales..the so-called Palestinians... Bama ( b.o.t.r): Damned Straight! Bush:..and I agree that they should be opposed, and we need to oppose them, so I'll support fighting terrorists anywhere, and the people of the Middle East...Are you suggesting that brown skinned people are stupid? Woofer: Me?!?!? Bush: Because I resent that implication. Next question? Oh...wait, I'm afraid we're out of time. Thanks very much, Mr. Beth. Thanks for coming here tomight, gentlemen, and I feel gratified that we got to the bottom of so many serious issues. Have a nice night, drive carefull, and watch out for evil.
Oh god, MacBeth. Totally classic! This one gets bookmarked for sure. Please do it again, anytime! (staggers off laughing)
Yeah, but needed him to be better than he is simply to sustain the dialogue. Am a trifle inhebriated, am going to sleep. Nite now, glad you guys liked it. Was fun to write. Talk more about it morrow.
