Bush and a Beer.

Wrong order. Five or six beers and then a Bush.

 

Excellent first post here, MacBeth. You really nailed the main reasons that, even aside from any policy concerns, I cannot stand this man. A lot of his opponents say they oppose his policies but find him likeable. The traits you listed represent exactly the kind of guy I find least likeable with regard to personality.

When I've cited others saying they'd like to have a beer with him, I've done so based on people saying it -- not because I understood it. If I were to try and understand it I'd say most people are, at heart, simple and easy. I've spent time in bars and people there certainly are, by and large. Bush gives you a cutesy nickname and a wink and you think, what a great guy. Or some people do.

I wouldn't want to drink with Kerry either.

When it comes to having a conversation with either of them, I'd enjoy one with Kerry on a few select issues -- most particularly ones on which we disagree because I know I'd get at least an attempt at a meaningful response. No chance of that with Bush, because he is just an exceptionally dumb man considering his position -- or really considering any of the positions he's held, each of which was a result of privilege and a family name and none of which was a result of effort or qualifications. And, as you well delineated in your first post, he is annoying as hell to boot.

I'll get flack for this, but I truly think Bush's general dumbness is what endears him to so many people. And he plays upon it as a strength. He's a regular guy who doesn't like to read; Kerry's a stuck up snob -- a reader. (See Bill Hicks for a hilarious bit on bigotry against "readers") I really think a lot of Americans are more comfortable with an intellectual lightweight and are uncomfortable with the idea of a president that might be smarter than they are. Not me. I want my president to be smarter than I am. If that makes me an elitist, so be it. I don't have even one casual friend (among hundreds) that I think is dumber than Bush is. And we see where that's gotten us.

I never voted for Clinton and I never liked him, but I would love to drink with him. I disagreed with him on so much and was so disappointed in him, but that guy is smart as hell and he knows how to have a good time. He'd be a blast to drink with.

I did drink with Jerry Brown (and Ray Flynn and Jack Germond, at the same bar). Brown wasn't much of a good time boy. Flynn and Germond were pretty fun.

 

I would want to drink with G.W Bush, and think it would be fun. I agree that we couldn't discuss literature, philosophy arts, politics, travel, or anything like that. But I bet he's the kind of guy that would be willing to partake in mischeivious antics. He could probably be talked into playing a practical joke on whover the most annoying guy at the bar happened to be. He could probably be talked into getting an off-road vehicle and trenching the grounds of Haliburton and stuff like that. In that way I think he'd be fun to drink with.

I too didn't vote for Clinton, and disagreed with him, on a large chunk of his policies, but he would be fascinating to talk to, and discuss things with.

 

although perhaps not the brightest guy- i certainly don't have an ivy league education like either of the candidates for president, although i married well- i find i can discuss arts, politics, travel, literature and philosophy with almost anyone, including the guy who sells batteries on a table in front of my building. the ability to do so has as much to do with what one can say ones' self, and the ability to actually listen, as it does whether the other party has read the great books or the oped page of the times that morning.

what i wouldn't want to do is share a beer, or a shot of tequila, or a glass of gewurztrameiner, with a self-important prick who feels the need to highlight his own intelligence and education at the expense of others. hmmm, now who does that rule out?

 

basso: I've also had great conversations with uneducated people all over the world. It's the proudly (and condescendingly) dumb that bug me.

I honestly think you and more than ninety percent of the posters in this forum (including even Trader_Haskell) are considerably smarter than the president of the United States. In fact, I'm pretty much sure of it. That doesn't bother you at all? The fact that you would whip the leader of the free world in a battle of wits? And that even Trader_Whack-A-Mole would? Because you guys would.

Regardless of personal drinking buddy preference, I repeat: I want a president that's smarter and better informed than I am. And I think, excepting this one, regardless of whether I agreed with any of them or not, every other president in my lifetime has been. Clinton, Bush Sr., Reagan, Carter, Nixon, LBJ have each been, in my considered opinion, more intelligent and better informed than I am (or than you are). That's as it should be. It's a pretty important job.

 

there's more similarity between Bush and Clinton in this regard than there is between Clinton and Kerry. Both of the former have a rare ability to talk to people, rather than at them, or over their heads. despite democrat's wildest fantisies, and despite kerry's obvious intelligence, the senator is no bartlett.

 

MacB: Accident. It is hard for me to include him in the list though. Was hard to include Reagan too -- gave him benefit of the doubt to help make the point. But I don't think he was stupid like Bush Jr. is.

basso: I agree with your last post and that's the number one problem Kerry has. Not his protesting, not his policy nuances, not his political expediency and certainly not any of his positions. No, his big problems are he's not a people person, he looks French, his wife has an accent and his middle name's Forbes. God bless America.

 

not to sound clintonian, i think you need to better define "intelligence." i imagine W's a hell of a poker player, so i'm not sure i'd like to try and match him in a battle of wits. i could care less if W has read shakespeare, and i've almost given up reading the paper myself (i find most papers, from the NYT to the WSJ incredible predictable- the standards of what consitute journalism have deteriorated markedly in the last ten years- but that's a subject for another thread).

i want a president who has a clear vision of where he wants to lead this country. i think this accounts for much of reagan's popularity, and for the record, i think bush is smarter than reagan was. bush is certainly the least articulate president in my lifetime, and perhaps that what some of you are equating with intelligence. they're not the same thing.

 

yeah, but what does his french appearance say about his judgement?

 

Honestly, some of you are lying. I was so upset during the 2000 election, many of you saw that here. However, a couple of days after the Supreme Court ruled, I was walking from our parking garage to our building in downtown Austin, right across from the Driscoll. At that moment, Bush walked out of the hotel and I just stood there in awe. That was the President of the United Freaking States right there. Hell yeah, I'd love to grab a beer with him, Clinton, H.W. (or a game), Reagan, Carter or Ford.

 

I don't think I would want to have a whole drink with Reagan. I would drink with him just long enough to ask about some the old hollywood stars that he worked with, and then I'd have to leave or lose control of my temper.

 

RM95, have you check the link on your sig? the story begins:

L. Paul Bremer, the U.S. administrator in Iraq (news - web sites), said Sunday he regrets a statement he made more than six months before the Sept. 11 attacks that the Bush administration was "paying no attention" to terrorism.

Bremer said any implied criticism that President Bush (news - web sites) was not acting against terrorism was "unfair."

 

By defining intelligence as having a good poker game I'm guessing you mean that Bush is good at reading people and manipulating them. I'm not willing to concede that. I think he's pretty much dumb across the board. If even the White House machine can't make him appear intellectually mediocre, with all the training, all the prep, the teleprompters, the speechwriters and on and on, all I can conclude is he's even dumber than he seems. It has nothing to do with him being articulate. That's just a symptom.

I think you're being a little dishonest, intentionally or not, when you say you just want someone with a clear vision. You're clearly a partisan (as am I) and you wouldn't be happy with the clearest conceivable vision if it came from the Left. As I am not when it comes from the Right. The idea that clarity of vision, by itself, deserves praise is just silly. Hitler was the king of clear vision. We don't much applaud him for that. What the vision actually is does matter.

It's also silly to bring Shakespeare or whatever into this. You would be hard pressed to find someone who enjoyed 'low' entertainment et cetera than me. Aqua Teen Hunger Force is my absolute favorite TV show and I'd much rather listen to Little Shop of Horrors than that prissy, effette, elitist opera stuff you sing.

Your media bashing aside (and we can both do this - you know it), it is the president's job to be well informed. His pride in not reading the paper -- and moreover, just flat not reading -- is pathetic.

 

I would love to get him in a poker game... I would love to get anyone who thinks God is going to provide on the inside straight draw in a poker game.