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Bulls focused in on Rockets in efforts deal Mutumbo

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by NIKEstrad, Aug 10, 2004.

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  1. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
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    http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/bulls.asp


    Bulls, Rockets still talking: The Bulls' efforts to trade newly acquired center Dikembe Mutombo are focused almost entirely on Houston. The Rockets have no backup center and used their midlevel exception to sign two free-agent guards Monday - Bob Sura and Charlie Ward.

    The Bulls would like to acquire veteran shooting guard Eric Piatkowski (two years, $5.75 million) for Mutombo (one year, $4.5 million).

    The Rockets have a trade exception from the Tracy McGrady deal that can cover the difference between the two salaries. The teams also have discussed adding players, such as Adrian Griffin or free agent Scott Padgett.

    Well, erroneous reporting as far as the wording of "cover the difference" but interesting that they're crediting the TMac deal for our TE.

    One thing that strikes me as odd is the thought of the Bulls wanting to do a 1 for 2 or a 1 for 3. They have 16 players under contract as it is, not including Duhon or the Euro SF I believe they're bringing in, Nocioni.

    The other thing that strikes me as odd is the Rockets seemingly not wanting to use their TE in this deal (hence, including Griffin and/or Padgett/Wilks).
     
    #1 NIKEstrad, Aug 10, 2004
  2. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    Rox not likely to want to add the salary difference + the MLE from the poit guards and blow thru the luxury tax numbers.
     
    #2 xiki, Aug 10, 2004
  3. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    what a great deal it would be. pike, AG and wilks, did almost nothing for us. if we can move them for a very valuable bench player would be great work by CD.
     
    #3 smoothie, Aug 10, 2004
  4. Sane

    Sane Member

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    Even if we trade them Pike, griffin and wilks..

    I believe Wilks is not guaranteed, so they cut him.

    Griffin makes 900K. On the Chicago RealGm board, many are suggesting he fight for a place with Linton Johnsen, which he would most probably win. Keep him till training camp, cut him if they don't need him.

    Pike is the piece they're looking for.


    I think it makes a lot of sense for them, especially if they get rif of Linton Johnsen and Mike Wilks. I'm pretty sure they're cutting Trybanski as well, he makes pocket change anyway.
     
    #4 Sane, Aug 10, 2004
  5. Willis25

    Willis25 Contributing Member

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    considering they want Pike AND Deke doesn't want to go there - I think its a good deal (especally if we dump salary in the process)

    Deke has only one year left under contract, so there is no long term committment from the team.
     
    #5 Willis25, Aug 10, 2004
  6. Sherlock

    Sherlock Contributing Member

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    I hope Houston can find a way to nab Duhon in the deal somehow.
     
    #6 Sherlock, Aug 10, 2004
  7. DanHiggsBeard

    DanHiggsBeard Member

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    Pike for Motumbo straight up is a good deal because Deke only has one year left and you could possibly sucker an Eastern conference playoff team to deal for him at the deadline.

    If we can somehow dump Griffin in the deal it suddenly becomes a great deal.
     
    #7 DanHiggsBeard, Aug 10, 2004
  8. GATER

    GATER Contributing Member

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    Pike for Deke doesn't work straight up because 115% of Piatkowki's contract does not match Mutombo and the TE can not be aggregated with Piatkowski to make up the difference.

    I believe the Rockets could send Pike and AGriffin + $1m of the TE or Pike + AGriff + Wilks re-singed for 3 years with only the 1st guaranteed.
     
    #8 GATER, Aug 10, 2004
  9. No Worries

    No Worries Contributing Member

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    Isn't this aggregation?
     
    #9 No Worries, Aug 10, 2004
  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I think you could trade the TE for Deke, which would give Chicago a TE. Then Chicago trades their TE for Pike. It works out as being Pike + part of the TE for Deke, effectively.
     
    #10 StupidMoniker, Aug 10, 2004
  11. Toast

    Toast Member

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    Oh now that's pretty interesting. Is there some rule against doing that type of thing, though?
     
    #11 Toast, Aug 10, 2004
  12. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
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    GATER-Whether we have a $6.9 mill trade exception from the Rice trade, or a $5.4 mill TE from the TMac trade, either cover Mutumbo's $4.5 mill salary. As SM said, the deal could look like 2 completely separate deals

    TE to Chicago for Mutumbo. (Chicago now has $4.5 mill TE)

    TE to Houston for Piatkowski (using Chicago's newly acquired TE).

    In the end, we'd have a TE for $2.75m plus the remaining portion from previous deals (, and they'd have one for $1.75m.

    xiki- I recognize this. But the proposals of Pike+Griffin+(Wilks or Padgett resigned) save us less than $1 million (Griffin's salary) over doing a Pike for Mutumbo deal with the TE acting as the catalyst. Plus, we'd have to go add guys to fill out the 13-15 slots on the roster anyway, and they likely wouldn't be making much less Griffin. I see it more as potentially conserving the TE for a midseason deal (or even later offseason deal?). A TE that can take back a player making about $5.5m (if it was created by the TMac trade) is a lot more valuable than a few for piddling amounts of 900K here, and 2.75 mill there.

    Sane- Wilks, by most accounts, including nba.com, is a RFA. They'd have to sign him to a new deal, with at least the first year being guaranteed. See Steven Hunter.

    If hoopshype numbers are correct (Mutumbo-4.496mill, Pike-2.70435mill, to use the APE we would have to aggregate just under $1.12 mill in player salaries with Piatkowski, in the form of likely Griffin+a player.

    Of course, Mutumbo+Chris Jefferies for Pike, Griffin, and either Wilks or Padgett resigned at around $1.1mill also works and only increases the Bulls roster by one rather than two.
     
    #12 NIKEstrad, Aug 10, 2004
  13. Texas Stoke

    Texas Stoke Contributing Member

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    This is what I first noticed as well. My thinking here is that if they don't want to use the TE in this deal, which seems to be the case, then they have a deal in the future that they are planning to use it in. Possibly the Antonio Daniels deal, as Deuce has been suggesting.
     
    #13 Texas Stoke, Aug 10, 2004
  14. Toast

    Toast Member

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    Yeah, I kinda think the Rockets would be completely happy if the TE just expired. I think it's pretty clear they don't wanna overspend on talent.
     
    #14 Toast, Aug 10, 2004
  15. aelliott

    aelliott Contributing Member

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    Pike + part of TE for Mutumbo would work.

    From Houston's POV: (broken into simultaneous and non-simultaneous parts)

    non-simultaneous: TE Covers Mutumbo's Salary
    Simultaneous : Pike out, nothing back (you're always allowed to take back less salary).

    Both of those work.

    Chicago's POV:

    Mutumbo out, Pike In. They are taking back less salary so it's allowed.

    If the Rockets are using any part of their TE, then it would have to be enough to cover Mutumbo's entire salary.
     
    #15 aelliott, Aug 10, 2004
  16. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    it expires on 9/30 so no midseason deals. the only question seems to be if it's worth 6.9 or got reduced to 5.4 from the tmac deal (there's no way it's a new 5.4 from the tmac deal).
     
    #16 francis 4 prez, Aug 10, 2004
  17. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Contributing Member
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    Yes, there is a way.

    The 5.4 (actually 5.48) would have been created as such from our perspective:
    TE for Howard
    TE for Lue
    Mobley/Cato for TMac/Gaines
    Francis for nothing (here's where the 5.48 comes in, 1/2 of Francis' 10.96 salary because he's BYC).

    That's a new exception that would expire next June. hence midseason possibilities. RealGM reports it that way.

    Texas Stoke- I doubt that trade possibility, but besides the fact, we'd still have enough of a trade exception to acquire Daniels even by doing Pike for Mutumbo straight up.
     
    #17 NIKEstrad, Aug 10, 2004
  18. JoeBarelyCares

    JoeBarelyCares Contributing Member

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    If this is how the deal was construed, did Orlando have 10.96 million in cap room or a trade exception to receive Francis' salary without sending out anything in return?
     
    #18 JoeBarelyCares, Aug 10, 2004
  19. francis 4 prez

    francis 4 prez Contributing Member

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    i thought all of that was finally discounted? i know people got it to work without using the TE (by literally only a few hundred dollars under the 115% + 100K rule) thought i suppose the TE approach is preferable. does francis for nothing work because his BYC value is less than orlando's new TE (howard + lue) and we can send out 10.96 for nothing b/c that's always allowed. i guess so. so maybe the new TE really does exist. it would be nice if the NBA had some official place to detail all of this and we didn't have to rely on hoopshype or patricia's salary numbers or RealGM's reporting.
     
    #19 francis 4 prez, Aug 10, 2004
  20. Yodels

    Yodels Contributing Member

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    I like what Padgett brings. Hope we don't trade him. With the new zone rules 4s that can shoot from 3pt land make teams deadly.
     
    #20 Yodels, Aug 10, 2004
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