Yea I am sure the lack of defense, not able to score in the 4th consistently, relies on the referees which doesn't always work and being unable to create his own shot consistently has nothing to do with it. Also I love how people keep bring up the argument that Melo is a loser when K-Mart has only been to the playoffs once in his career while he was coming off the bench.
By the way, I don't hate K-Mart, I just find it hilarious that people are suggesting we build around K-Mart when building around legitimate stars like Yao Ming and Tracy Mcgrady failed to win a championship. Like I mentioned before, it is like building around Michael Redd.
Lack of defense: he's improving, and we clearly notice it. not able to score in the 4th consistently: no one is all that consistent if you look more carefully and with less bias, and he's still improving. relies on the referees: great...obviously it's working at 9 fta/game. i love it. i'm sorry that shooting fts isn't as flashy as those fadeaway prayers that some other stars chuck up, but it's better. really. And personally I think Martin is a great offball star to build around, kind of like Allen/Miller were. I'm just more annoyed by the people who consider a 23 ppg scorer to be a ft shooting "role player"
Wow, impressive that this thread lasted this long. Building around Kevin Martin is not an option, first, because he is not good enough offensivelly to prevent teams to shut him down any given night with ONE good defender. Secondly, because if your star doesn´t play defense it is very difficult to make his team play defense, look at how long it took Dallas, and Dirk plays better defense than Martin. You have to build around an idea, and put the best players you can to translate it in wins. I think Martin is a transition towards that idea, and as they failed to bring a good defensive C (it´s not like we need Dwight Howard, i would be good with a Serge Ibaka/Tiago Splitter/Tyson Chandler i think the team will be able to bring a good one next season and improve the PG position by landing an elite PG to replace oour two very good PG´s.
I know what you're saying, but unlike martin,miller played better when the competition was at its best. So far this season against the top 4 defenses the rockets have faced, he has averaged 16ppg on 35% shooting. That is not someone you build around. He's a piece of the puzzle,just not a big enough piece to win with.
Didn't he help control Gordon last night? He has also been playing a lot better defensively of late. No one thinks Melo is a loser. He is just not a superstar.
Most of those were during the time when the team was struggling. At the time of the Landry/Martin trade, Morey mentioned that, career-wise, his performance against good defenses have been good (including a pretty efficient playoff series vs. the Spurs, though he was not the top guy on that team back then). We'll see how he fares in January when the tougher teams come to town. I suspect that thing will even out.
Additionally, Martin doesn't have the handle to cause other teams to have to double him. He can be run off screens and score efficiently and effectively, but won't force defenses to rotate or shade him with more than one defender. I don't feel comfortable building around someone that doesn't possess that ability.
Ray Allen, Peja Stojackovic, Reggie Miller, Richard Hamilton Teams have competed for, and won titles with Kevin Martin types, but you don't build around him, he's merely a piece. But because of him, it allows us to have Hayes and Battier types because he can fill it up. His inability, or unwillingness to score late in games is the main thing that scares me. It always seems Brooks, Lowry and Scola are doing the crunch time work.
Martin's physical limitations are the main reasons why, despite his elite shooting and foul-drawing ability, he is unable to become as good of a player as Reggie was. Reggie, although with his flaws, was a player you could (un)successfully build around. It's hard to treat Kevin in the same manner. For a player of his height, he has freakishly small hands, which inhibits his ball handling skills, his driving ability, and his shot making ability in traffic. Ever notice how he never dunks with one hand? Reggie had better shooting ability in heavy traffic than Kevin. Kevin has above average athleticism, but he's unable to capitalize on them because of his small hands. Furthermore, while Reggie can never be confused for a great defender, his lanky frame allowed him some leeway. It's almost hard to believe that Kevin is 6'7" because he plays as if he was much smaller. It's not his fault...it's just his body limits his effectiveness.
The person whom you accuse of not knowing how to dribble is the least assisted player on the team after the point guards. He also gets to the line enough to shoot more than 10 fts a game. Why don't you check his statistics before you start inventing stuff? Trugoy and the others right. If Melo is someone you consider good enough to build around KM is too.
Reggie Miller also wasn't as efficient as Kevin Martin. In fact, his numbers are much closer to Melo's than it is to Martin. I think the main problem with people here is that if you're a perimeter player, you have to be a closer/clutch. Martin isn't that type of guy, he's a Shaq/Duncan/KG type of workhorse whom you ride 9/10 of the game and then let closers finish the game up. I guess when most people about building around Kevin martin they think about surrounding him with defensive players and letting him dominate the ball Allen Iverson style. However KM isn't good enough to be the sole offensive option. Ideally you'd surround him with a defensive/rebounding big, a versatile scoring big, a defensive perimeter stopper, and a closer. We already have most of those, just need an elite defensive big man and we're good to go.
just wanted to bump this after the draft, it seems like viewing morey's moves through the pacers 90 model makes a lot of sense. Flynn - Travis Best Montiejunas - Smits Morris - Antonio Davis Even the coaching is similar Mchale - Bird Finch - Carlisle
Morris will have a bigger impact on the team by his second year, and will universally be regarded as our best player by his 3rd season. So, I wouldn't really call it building around Kevin Martin. Besides, even now, Kyle Lowry is our best player.
agree on the kyle lowry part, but even that is precient to the 90s pacers, some would say that when the pacers went to the finals, jalen rose was the best player on the team, not reggie miller.
Carmelo can score in the closing moments of the game, and has the ability to take over a close game down the stretch.... Kevin cannot... that's the big difference between both of them. Kevin is NOT someone you can build around and its unfair to ask him to be that franchise player when he clearly doesn't have the talent for it. He is best used a 2nd or 3rd option type of guy, anything more then that and your asking to much of the guy.
Building around a superstar like paul is what we need! That guy is so awesome, no way in hell that his team will ever win less than 50 games. No way! Or we need superstars like melo and amare, those two will never lead their team to 42 victories! =/ I like to think of it as more building around a team concept. Considering we're going to keep pretty much the same offense, it makes sense. We have a top 9 scorer in Martin, a top 10 point guard in efficiency among point guards in Lowry. We just need patterson to take his game up a couple of levels so Luis can provide offense off the bench. If Morris becomes what he and morey expect him to become, we are set at small forward. Remember how battier would post up his match up when he had the advantage. Morris could have the advantage most nights and finish around the rim! Bball is a team game. I'd take this rockets team full of "scrubs" to win every night against amare and carmela. I do believe we need that "superstar" to get the calls in those final minutes of the game when lowry misses a clutch freethrow or Wade decides to roll around the court like the biotch he is for five minutes. Can you tell I hate today's superstars not named Durant and Howard?
We aren't building around him. He's not a star. He scores a lot but he doesn't really make his own shot but gets what the defense lets him. He's good at that but that's about it. Still, with Marcus Morris now on board, Martin's a really good fit at SG. I would've traded him before Lee before the draft but I wouldn't mind trading Lee now and move Budinger back to 2, where he's probably better suited.
Mchale said he would try to run big to big pick and roll, with MM handling the ball. Sounds like an amazing time to have Kevin Martin off the ball yes? MM and Donatas pick n roll? options galore.
