I definitely don't hate Christianity though I do detest many of the people I see on TV with their religious zealotry. Also, I don't know what you are talking about when you say 'bad experience'? It wasn't a bad experience, rather it was the realization that Christianity wasn't for me because I found many of the beliefs to be counter-intuitive and illogical. Perhaps, your post illustrates the main problem I have with Christianity. Faith is always what it boils down to and I, for one, rather think things through than to believe through faith. What is faith? Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. Yet if we are to believe in a religion just on faith, what is the reason we choose Christianity? One religion is good as another if you are to rest your belief on faith. Why Christianity? You can have faith is Islam, Hinduism, Taoism, anything. How can you make your choice base on such a foolish reason? Faith, an often abused word in religion. Your second paragraph illustrates how Christianity works. You were drawn to Christianity by the people. Christianity works through people. If the church falls and the community falls, the religion would fall. It is similar to a moderate cult. Chants, prayers, group intimidation (clapping during song, bowing head during prayer), prolonged isolation (retreats), withholding nourishment (fasting), repeating mantras (Praise the Lord!), and most importantly, blind faith. Maybe that is why it is easier to get a whole bunch of people to support anti-abortion, etc. I dunno, I'm tired so don't hold me to anything I'm saying. I'm thinking many people will respond to this with a passion, plus it's late and I'm tired. All I can say is, if you took away the church, and had Christians practice in private, I bet the number of Christians would dwindle by a thousand-fold. It's the social nature that props up Christianity, not the principles because, frankly, most religions have principles such as withholding oneself from material goods and a belief in God. It's not that different.
If people are allowed to think for themselves, then what is going to stop them from thinking that violence is the right way? Just doesn't seem to me that Buddhism is going to solve all the violence in the world. Whether Buddhism or Christianity or something else is the main religion, it can and will be hijacked by evil people. Also, what is the point of calling yourself a Buddhist if you can believe in whatever you want?
Chants??!! Intimidation??!! CULTS??!! Wow, I mean wow - I don't think there is anything else I can discuss here with you after reading that. I don't know much about buddhism at all, but isn't there something in that religion about judging? You are awfully judgmental about Christianity. Hope you find your spiritual salvation with Buddhism, MartianMan.
Well, to be fair, Christianity was originally called a cult...but it wasn't really seen as a bad thing.
so back to the subject of Buddhism, I would like to share the lyrics to a Beastie Boys song, Bodhisattva Vow. the story goes like this: Adam Yauch, MCA of the Beastie Boys travels to Tibet to meet and study with the Dalai Lama. upon reading the book by Shantideva, he lays the fundamentals of Buddhism down in the 1994 album ill Communication... As I develop the awakening mind I praise the buddha as they shine I bow before you as I travel my path to join your ranks, I make my full time task For the sake of all beings I seek The enlighted mind that I know Ill reap Respect to shantideva and all the others Who brought down the darma for sisters and brothers I give thanks for this world as a place to learn And for this human body that I know Ive earned And my deepest thanks to all sentient beings For without them there would be no place to learn what Im seeing Theres nothing here thats not been said before But I put it down now so Ill be sure To solidify my own views and Ill be glad if it helps Anyone else out too If others disrespect me or give me flack Ill stop and think before I react Knowing that theyre going through insecure stages Ill take the opportunity to exercise patience Ill see it as a chance to help the other person Nip it in the bud before it can worsen A change for me to be strong and sure As I think on the buddhas who have come before As I praise and respect the good theyve done Knowing only love can conquer in every situation We need other people in order to create The circumstances for the learning that were here to generate Situations that bring up our deepest fears So we can work to release them until theyre cleared Therefore, it only makes sense To thank our enemies despite their intent The bodhisattva path is one of power and strength A strength from within to go the length Seeing others are as important as myself I strive for a happiness of mental wealth With the interconnectedness that we share as one Every action that we take affects everyone So in deciding for what a situation calls There is a path for the good for all I try to make my every action for that highest good With the altruistic wish to achive buddhahood So I pledge here before everyone whos listening To try to make my every action for the good of all beings For the rest of my lifetimes and even beyond I vow to do my best to do no harm And in times of doubt I can think on the dharma And the enlightened ones whove graduated samsara
I am buddhist. I am going to hell because of that... Anyhoo, I don't like to ride the Buddhist train because it made its stop in Hollywood. It now seems like everybody in Hollywood is Buddhist. But thank goodness a girl from English Detroit is now sporting Kabbalah' stuff. So the buddha train has left Hollywood, and the Kabbalah train has made its stop.
classic!! on a similar note, the Simpsons took a jab at Kaballah in a recent episode. lisa is into Wicca and Bart accuses the cult of being a "Hollywood Fad" Lisa retorts "Thats Kabbalah..."
well, to be fair, the bad stigma that cults receive are a contemporary problem. Cults weren't viewed unfavorably before the 1900s. The word cult derive from the Latin cultus, meaning "care" or "adoration," as "a system of religious belief or ritual; or: the body of adherents to same." and yes, Christianity uses cult-like techniques. Are you trying to deny that portion or are you just aghast at my phrasing? And also, to be fair, I'm sure you are just as judgmental as me even though Christianity specifically disallows it. I don't even know why you view being judgmental as bad unless you are specifically talking about denoucing people and ideas. If that is the case, then let me assure you, I wasn't denoucing Christianity as much as I was pointing out facts. I never said Christianity was the root of all evil or even that Christianity was 'false'. I just stated reasons why Christianity is not for me and what I don't like about it.
Interesting thread like all the religion threads. I think the debate between whether a religion is dependent upon, faith, understanding or rules is endemic to almost all religions. If I remember my history wasn't the Reformation a schism of belief whether one can get into heaven through faith or acts. Buddhism being a big religion with a long history has had its own schisms and intense debates regarding such things as whether the Buddha is a God and if you can get to paradise, The Pure Land, by chanting Amida Buddha's name over and over again. The Nichorin sect of Buddhism even does things like chant for cars. I haven't had a time to look at MadMax's links but I would agree with him that Buddhism, Taoism and Hinduism are far from free of a history of violence including persecution of other religions or even other dogma's within the religion. Emperor Asoka was a great patron of Buddhism but also a great conqueror. The history of Sri Lanka is wracked with religious conflict between the majority Buddhists and Hindus from the Indian mainland. In China there have been religious conflicts between Buddhists and Taoists with fighting monks on both sides. One of the greatest Tibetan legends is a story about the a Buddhist monk who assasinates one of the early kings of Tibet who was hostile to Buddhism. There even is a legend about one of the previous lives of Shakyamuni Buddha where he was a merchant prince who killed bandits that were attacking his caravan. Zen Buddhism in particular has had a long history of being closely associated with martial arts and militarism. The Shaolin Temple is one of the first Zen Temples and is located outside the cave where Bodhi Dharma meditated for 9 years. Zen was also the creed of the Samurai and many Japanese generals in WWII subscribed to it. So Buddhism is far from a religion of peace and nonviolence. Speaking for myself personally I find a lot of value in Buddhist beliefs and principles and if I can be considered to be a member of a religion it would be Buddhist but at the sametime I'm not going to present Buddhism as being free of strife, hypocrisy or violence. The idea that Buddhism is perfect or superior to other religions strikes me as being un-Buddhist.
What's funny is that the "cult-like technicques" you listed can be found at sporting events and music concerts. There is nothing secret about Chrisitianity. All of its teachings are known and anyone can join. It is not right ot call it a cult.
I find that one of Buddhism's greatest attribute is the fact that each person comes to Buddhism with their own perspective and, theoretically, thinks through his actions. And because each person comes to their own conclusions, you can rightly judge each person individually. That is why I like Buddhism. That is also why, when you talk about buddhism's history of violence, you are talking about people who have different beliefs than other buddhists since every buddhist have different beliefs. So you can't characterize the whole religion. Obviously, it would also be unfair to characterize Christians as a homogenous group, but their belief system is pretty much tied to one and another. Christianity has verses specifically advocating certain positions. For example, anti-abortion. Exodus 21:22-23, Psa. 139:13-16, and more support the anit-abortion movement. There are also versus denouncing gay rights, etc. So as oppose to thinking things through, you basically must follow a prescribed course. If some people want to follow a certain set of prescribed beliefs, that is fine with me. I'm just saying that I, personally, find the Buddhist way as more fulfilling. As to your last quote, a person who chooses Christianity must feel that Christianity is superior (or the true, perfect religion) in relation to everything else. Same thing with Buddhists and Jews, etc. So your last quote seems paradoxical.
Strictly speaking Buddhism isn't exactly a religion but more a way of life so saying Buddhism is superior to Christianity isn't really an equal comparison. Its possible for someone to be a Christian Buddhist. Also Buddhism avoids absolutes while Christianity and other monotheistic religions embrace them and balance is the key to being a Buddhist. Since balance is critical it would seem un-Buddhist to me to place Buddhism above other religions in some sort of religious / faith value judgement. Its fitting that a statement about Buddhism is paradoxical because the nature of Buddhism is to embrace paradox by seeing past duality.
Well, first off, I never directly said Buddhism is better than Christianity. What I did do was point out what I didn't like about Christianity (which I did because people asked me about it) and what I like about Buddhism. Then I followed up by explain why I would choose Buddhism over Christianity anyday of the week. By me choosing Buddhism over Christianity, I exhibit a preference for one religion over another. Obviously, I choose Buddhism because I feel it is a better religion IMO. Hence, I feel Buddhism is superior. Now, if you were to talk in absolute terms, no one can claim any religion is superior because there needs to be a criteria set forth in which to compare each religion's attributes against. Of course when I post, just like when everyone else on this board posts, I argue in relative terms and based on my own opinion setting forth my criteria and extrapolating a conclusion from my information at hand. My criteria for a religion involves being able to think for yourself and not being tied down to certain positions. Certainly, using that criteria, Buddhism is superior. If you were to use another criteria, Christianity might be superior. So I am arguing that by choosing a religion, you are claiming that religion is superior to other religions inherently just by making that choice. So every Buddhist thinks Buddhism is the best choice. And if you're Christian Buddhist, you feel Christianity and Buddhism are the best choices.
I don't think that's true. In my so far limited experience in learning "the ways", I would say that a Buddhist in general would think every person makes the right choice for them in the sense that all religions are, in essence, roads to the same place. In my view if you were to select a very big difference in Christianity and Buddhism, it would be the Christian belief that man is inherently sinful. A Buddhist I think would believe man is inherently good.
Well said...I'm catholic and I'm comfortable with who I am and what religion I'm in...I also enjoy reading and I've read up on Budhism, Zen, etc...It's good information and good to know what else is out there...I agree its a different way of thinking/life and really, to each his own...
Ghandhi once remarked that he would have been a Christian, if he had ever seen one. My association with Christians dates from 1889 and there was a time in my life when I sincerely considered Christianity as my religion. In my pursuit, I met many a scholars and thinkers, who while having a profound effect on me, were not able to convince me. Although I admire much in Christianity, I am unable to identify myself with the orthodox Christianity. I must tell you in all humility that Hinduism, as I know it, entirely satisfies my soul, and fills my whole being. The missionaries come to India thinking that they come to a land of heathen, of idolaters, of men who do not know God. My own experiences all over India have been on the contrary. An average Indian is as much a seeker after truth as the Christian missionaries are, possibly more so. Please do not flatter yourselves with the belief that a mere recital of that celebrated verse in St. John makes a man Christian. If I have read the Bible correctly, I know many men who have never known the name of Jesus Christ, men who have even rejected the official interpretations of Christianity, but would nevertheless, if Jesus came in our midst today in the flesh, be probably owned by him more than many of us. My position is that it does not matter what faith you practice, as long as the soul longs for truth. I believe in the teachings of Jesus Christ but sadly find most Christians' behavior (including my own) to be an embarrassment to those teachings.
