Thanks! I hadn't read that. If they really are, then I agree. If Astros team members are really wearing "Bud killed us" T-shirts, that is reprehensible. At that point, (and I find it hard to believe grown men are moping around about a damn game while their community suffers the way it is), I would agree with you completely here: I've opined over and over that the games should *not* have been in Milwaukee, and I'm not backing down from that opinion. But they were. And if the Astros, as grown men, are responding in this manner, that's truly sad. Truly, truly sad.
Do you really believe he made a ton of money on the Milwaukee games? Obviously, the team received more money from gate receipts at Miller Park then they would have playing in an empty stadium, but you do realize - don't you, they also have to refund money to over 70,000+ ticket holders for the two games (probably 3 now) lost to Hurrican Ike that Minute Maid park ticket holders could not go to? I assume a lot of money was lost due to the moving/cancellation of those games (not that that should matter in the overall scheme of things). I am getting tired of some folks seeing this as a "money grab" for McLane.
Bud Selig about his controversy. Rosenthal interview. Also, on ESPN Bud admited it gave the Cubs the advantage. Although he says he feels upset about how it all turned out. Bud donated $500,000 on behalf of the MLB to support Ike effort.
Thanks for being so gracious, Bud. Give me a break. Wherever the Cubs go, that phenomenon takes place...? If this is his way of diminishing the fact that Miller Park transformed into Wrigley field those two nights, essentially that the "phenomenon" would have occurred almost anywhere and so it was thus unavoidable, wow I don't know what to say. Look, I agree that there is absolutely no excuse for the team to have completely rolled over thus since. That's pretty weak. But, acceptance of that fact does not nullify the extant reality that they were royally screwed and have every right to feel that way. My biggest fear when it was first announced that the games would be played in Milwaukee, having a feeling the team would completely collapse after losing all momentum, was that if they finished the season not even in the picture, MLB/Drayton/Selig would be completely off the hook and it would seem a moot point. It looks like that has happened.
I still would have rather played the games in Round Rock. I'd like to hear why Bud didn't like that option. Aside from smaller seating capacity, I can't think of any other reasons.
question: what does a pretentious prick sound like? bud: A: Those have been questions in Houston, obviously. Look, what happened is the tragedy of the hurricane. We bent over backwards. We considered all of the options. I had three weather services — I can keep you all day going through all this. When we knew early Saturday morning about the devastation, we knew we couldn't play in Houston. We had to consider other options. We called Minnesota. They had the (University of Minnesota) Golden Gophers (football game) on Saturday and the (Minnesota) Vikings on Sunday. In Arizona, the Diamondbacks were playing. Atlanta, all three weather services said there was going to be rain. Tampa, the Red Sox were playing on Monday. Washington ... we went through every alternative. Q: St. Louis? The storm went through St. Louis. You know what happened to Chicago last week. St. Louis got all that rain. All three weather services said, "Don't even think about going there." Q: Texas? A: Every weather service predicted that the storm would go right up through Texas — and that the devastation might be worse. And Texas was playing at home on Monday. We had decisions to make on Saturday. The more we went through it, the only option we had left was Milwaukee. (The teams played two games at Miller Park, and the third game will be made up in Houston at the end of the season, if necessary.) I kept the third game (in Houston). We're not supposed to do that. We're supposed to play all the games during the season. But I gave Houston the third game if it means something the following Monday. This was a tragedy. I frankly wanted to go to Minnesota. The Cubs would have had a lot of fans there as well. Wherever the Cubs go, that (phenomenon) takes place. But Minnesota was out. We had no choice. Between the rain and the domes in use, we had no choice. We couldn't send them out to the West Coast. The (Astros) had to be in Florida (on Tuesday night). If I sent them to Dodger Stadium or Seattle, they would have played a double-header Monday, then flown all night to Miami. People can sit around and second-guess. But as I go back through my notes, there were no other viable alternatives. I couldn't send them somewhere where it was going to rain. Q: Your options would have been greater if Astros owner Drayton McLane had agreed to postpone the games before the hurricane hit. A: A lot of people are blaming him for that. I don't think it's fair. I want to protect Drayton. He was very hopeful that the hurricane wouldn't be as severe as it was. Only Saturday morning did we realize that we couldn't stay in Houston.
I'm putting a $5 bounty on Scumbag Selig's head. $5 for the poster that brings me his wrapped in a Chicago Tribune newspaper.
Llame...it's not like they'd be going from LA to NY compared to Mil to NY...LA to Miami isn't that much longer by plane than Mil to Miami.
the point is - there were many people working prior to, during and immediately after the hurricane including all the local network affiliates. it wasn't unprecedented and had the astros been on the road, they would have been expected to continue playing games. actually, they didn't move their bye "back" - they used it up on the missed game. the built-in byes allows them far more flexibility that major league baseball has in the final 2-3 weeks of its season. if this had been november or december... the NFL would have been up against it, too. that's fine; the DH would have been still been held in milwaukee. downtown was closed. let me repeat that with well-placed all caps: it was CLOSED. do you know why? because it was deemed unsafe. you can't ask teams, not to mention workers associated with the games, to ignore that and put their health at risk. DOWNTOWN WAS CLOSED. not an option. the problem is that on september 12-14, the cubs still haven't clinched anything so they're likely playing their everyday players. on september 29, they've clinched everything and are a day away from starting the postseason so they're likely playing scrubs. well, if the game has playoff implications (ie if the astros win, they're in) - is that fair to the mets/phillies/brewers, et al? no. it's not. they do everything possible not to bump games; and they set the WS so that there are days built in (in addition to travel) where they can move games around. but the bigger issue is you simply can't put your entire league on hold for one team. i know that's harsh and cold, but it's true. the world did not stop that weekend. if you can show me anything to back that up, i'll graciously concede it. i'm fairly certain, though, that the plan was for local CBS stations in baltimore and houston only to carry the game. espn - which had its own (much better) game - was never in the equation. ever. they schedule around it (ie they have firm end dates) and, more importantly, they use the playoffs to promote their shows. you're talking about bringing a multi-million, if not billion, dollar operation to a screeching halt because of one team.
Ric, you make an excellent argument. I'm still not completely convinced, and I believe MLB has some sanctimonious regulations that should have been overlooked for times like these (games should have been at Dell Diamond). But, the absolute pity-party put on by grown multi-millionairres since the Wrigley North debacle has sucked all the remaining vitriol out of my anger at Selig. The Astros don't deserve to go to the playoffs. For 81 games this season, they were a sub-.500 team. They're a mediocre-to-bad team, and they're throwing a toddler-esque tempter tantrum about not getting lucky. The Sunday game in Milwaukee should never have happened. But the following four losses, the T-shirts, and whining in the press... sad. Just sad. That's not what I want my Astros known for.
Well it all depends on their travel accomodations. I know they flew a charter out on Sunday to Milwuakee, but do baseball teams always use charters or do they normally fly commercial? Because if they fly commercial then there's a real possibility that it could have taken them the same time to get from LA to Miami that it would have taken to get from Milwaukee to Miami (LA seems to offer non-stop flights to Miami whereas Mil doesn't). But if it's the norm to charter a plane, then it would have taken 2-2 1/2hrs longer to go from LA to Miami (again assuming it's non-stop). But, here's a good question, why wasn't this proposed to the team itself? Why not let the coaches and players decide if they'd rather play 90 minutes away from Chicago in a hostile environment for a "home game" on the west coast with a longer travel time? Why did Selig immediately just toss that option away? Then again, maybe he didn't...none of the suggestions offered by the players were of stadiums out west. But again, did he give them options...did he say, you can play either in LA/Seattle or Mil, which do you prefer? You know honestly, if the teams were out on the road, then I would hope MLB would be gracious enough to allow them to get their families out of harm's way. And as I said before, Mayor White called for employees to stay home and for employers to not require them to come in to work, non-essential personnel that is. Does that mean everyone heeded that advice, no. But more people than not were allowed to stay home. Baseball isn't essential...they shouldn't have had to play Sunday. And Cincy did in fact have to move their bye week to accomdate the Texans/Ravens game that got pushed back because of the storm. Not that big deal, but still not as simple as just moving the game to another date without it affecting other teams. But agreed, the NFL had far more flexibility being at the start of the season than MLB being at the end. And I understand that downtown was closed, but I still don't buy that MMP couldn't have been used on Monday. Why was the team still lobying for it then? MMP had no damage and it had power. And it's not like MMP was in the middle of downtown, it was on the edge. I don't think the players would have had any difficulty getting to the stadium (if they played a DH on Monday...Sunday's another story). The only problem is the fans wouldn't have been able to attend. And that only becomes a problem if they're only thinking about money, instead of what's best for the players. And again, the Ravens and Texans were still scheduled to play Monday, if not for the damage to Reliant. As for as programming, it looks like the local stations were going to play it, not ESPN. But doesn't that prove my point somewhat, that networks have some flexibility in their scheduling...especially when you're talking about sports, where you can run into overtime or face rain delays and postponements. So you begin the playoffs one day later than scheduled, you can basically make up that day using one of the scheduled "travel" days. Nothing gets changed before/after the playoffs and the sponsors keep their ad time. Now I'm not saying it's the easiest thing to do, nor is it the most realistic...my whole point is that there is precedent for it. But of course, MLB puts the networks and money ahead of its players. It's not surprising at all. Regardless, the best scenario (for all parties involved) probably would have been the DH on Monday, and I have yet to hear a compelling argument, or any argument, against it. Honestly it's a moot point now. They were shafted; but those two games are pretty much meaningless now since they got swept in the very next series. Shoot they could have played poorly wherever they played. And while I'm not faulting them for playing uninspired ball in Milwaukee, I certainly find fault with their performance against the Marlins. And I also think they need to let it go, lest they be labeled whiners, if they're not already. Selig made a poor decision. End of story. They shouldn't have played on Sunday and they shouldn't have played in Milwaukee. And no argument he can make will justify his decision. But still, the team had control of it's own destiny for a brief moment, and squandered it...even after losing two to the Cubs.
last post, i promise.... the implication has always been that drayton refused to discuss any alternatives until all parties involved were up against the wall; IOW, after ike had roared into the gulf and set its sights on galveston/houston. plus, as much as you’ve bagged selig, the west coast added a burden probably more problematic than playing the cubs in milwaukee and he tried to spare them that. asking a tired group of players to head west on short notice and then fly all the way across the country (losing three hours in the process) is a much tougher situation to put the team in also, drayton DID NOT handle the situation well; he was ill-prepared. he could have – and should have – moved up the thursday game and then sent the team to austin Friday morning to await word. this is going to sound more harsh than i intend but why are these families incapable of getting themselves out of harm’s way? i know many people who worked through the hurricane and their families did just fine without them. and with the astros and their families, we’re talking about people with much greater resources (ie money) than the average family. read these two posts together, JunkyardDwg… then think about it… maybe read them again…….. in fact, read ‘em over and over until it clicks…….. there’s a sizeable difference between network affiliates (in this case, two) and networks. no one at CBS corporate is going to lose sleep if a re-run of TWO AND A HALF MEN is interrupted in baltimore… what precedent?!?? when has MLB baseball EVER done anything even remotely like postponing their season/postseason to accommodate one team? i don’t believe a DH one day later is an appreciably better situation – especially if you’re suggesting it should have been held in houston. and that’s because DOWNTOWN WAS CLOSED. he made the only decision that didn’t compromise his league’s season. it wasn’t easy, i doubt he liked it, either, it’s not defensible next to the “real world” perspective of the hurricane... but every single alternative has been definitively shot down. there was NO situation that would have been “fair” – it was lose-lose no mater what.
Too late. And honestly, "Puma" was well on his way to that rep *before* donning his "Bud killed us" shirt and lamenting that MLB cares more about its dollars than its players.
I agree that Drayton didn't handle it well either. He should have been steadfast in his proposal instead of caving in and playing in Milwaukee. And he should have probably recognized sooner that this thing was heading toward Houston and made contingency plans. But again, I wonder if the players were even presented with all the available options to them. If they had the choice of playing at Dell Diamond (on a minor league field), Milwaukee, LA, Seattle, etc what would their choice be...basically instead of making a unilateral decision in the face of clear objections try to come to a suitable compromise involving the players (the guys actually playing the game). Milwaukee was NOT a compromise. I agree that the wives and children are not without the capabilities of handling a crisis on their own. But be sure, if I was one of those players, and a major Hurricane was headed toward my family, then baseball is of the least priority to me. If that means leaving the team to be with them then so be it. Realistically, MLB would probably not postpone the games, but I'd imagine they'd be sympathetic enough to allow players to fly in their families, at least. My point was that if they HAD to play on Sunday or Monday, then play as close to home or at home if possible. MMP was perfectly safe to play, despite damage to some of the high rises downtown...Why was the team still lobbying for it even after the storm had passed, after downtown was closed? Sunday the road conditions were pretty bad, but Monday the weather was just fine...a DH could have theoretically been held in MMP on Monday (despite downtown being closed...again MMP had no damage), with or without fans. Again, we're talking about sports events...where baseball games can go on to the early morning hours, or get cancelled all together. Where playoff series can be four and done or go to seven games. They have to plan for those contingencies and I doubt starting the playoffs one day later (which I am not advocating as the only option Selig should have taken) would have been "impossible" for them to do. Why? Because it's happened before. Don't know why I have to keep repeating this, but there is precedent for MLB postponing games and pushing the start of the playoffs back. That is fact, whether the tragedy affected two teams or all teams. Now a good argument to make here is that the Chargers still had to play during all those wildfires...and that is a good point. So I suppose the Astros should still be expected to play too...but let them play a DH on Monday...not on Sunday. It may not have actually mattered...they could have still gotten plastered. But most likely they didn't get much sleep saturday night, morning or afternoon..and then you ask them to board a plan early Sunday and fly to Milwaukee. You give them that extra day and let them play a DH on Monday, they might have a shot of getting rest and assessing/dealing with their own damage enough to not have to worry about it as much when they leave. And I completely disagree...there were other options available and he has yet provide a compelling argument against them all. And I think this sums it up best for me... http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/bi...-letting-go-of-this-beef-with-?urn=mlb,109538
I think they had every right to be upset before, during and immediately following that series...but once you go to Florida and get swept, then you need to let your frustrations go. They could have lost both of those games to the Cubs and then come back and win 2 of 3 or all three against the Marlins and still have a great shot at winning the Wild Card. But then maybe it's pent up frustration from the WS "open roof" fiasco...just play the games and try to end the season on a high note.
Sure. They also have a right to whine, but that would make them whiners. And that's what we have here. I love Lance, but he's building himself a reputation as a whiner who can hit. Sad. I mean seriously--Hawkins designed and placed an order for 50 t-shirts, then ordered ten more! Would that they would have put that kind of effort into playing baseball during the Marlins series!
i lied... and hate myself for it.... the players don't set schedules and even if they were given a voice, keep in mind there's another team involved. i doubt the cubs wanted to play in a minor league park and i doubt the cubs wanted to turn an easy trip south in the same time zone to a tougher trip out west. it's not up to MLB to do/provide this any more than it is for your employer to do/provide the same service to you and your family. drayton, otoh - like nearly every other business in houston - had ample time to act proactively. he did not. Junkyard Dwg... do you know the #1 reason why downtown was closed? falling glass. and you're honestly suggesting players and assorted personnel should have dodged said glass (some of it falling from as high as 40 stories) to play a baseball game?... really?........ i mean, i'm trying to remain civil and respectful here... but if you honestly think conditions around MMP (incuding the weather) are the ONLY considerations.... it's a little exasperating, to be perfectly honest. there was flooding all over houston (players don't actually live at, or even near the park); large patches of power outages (making driving at night REALLY unsafe); power lines, tress and debris down EVERYWHERE; a city-wide curfew... i mean, i could probably list a dozen+ reasons why MMP was not an option. period. and everytime you argue it was, your position grows shakier. they have NEVER done this... save extraordinary circumstances that impacted a large, if not complete segment of its league. no, there really isn't. they suspended the entire season after 9/11 (for a grand total of 8 days, IIRC), and i know they suspended seasons during the second world war.... maybe WW1, too.... but those are not in the same universe as a hurricane. the NFL didn't postpone the saints season after katrina - in fact, the saints actually lost a home game; they had to play the giants in new york instead of the superdome... hmmm, sound familiar? that's about as close to a precedent as you're going to get. the world did not stop because of hurricane ike. i doubt they slept much sunday, either, so i fail to see how playing two games on monday was appreciably better. yes, actually he has. if they had been playing any other team, milwaukee was the BEST, most viable option. that's not even up for debate. the cubs wrinkle the situation, but since there were no better alternatives...