Thats true about Brees, but itis a little deceiving. How many plays were there where he'd thow little screen passes to Bush or another RB and that would net big yards? Not downplaying what he did, but some of the rushing type plays went that way instead. Cutler is still pretty good and you can't put the failures all on him. The defense was ranked 29th for the year. Big Ben has been good, but even with the running game hurting, he wasn't exactly lighting people up. Yes he also has two rings, but then again the best defense in the league may have had something to do with that. Ben is clutch and does have ability and thats why he's in my top ten. Also if we're talking total body of work, Palmer moves up on my list. For right now, if I were starting a team from scratch there would be a few guys in front of him.
Well I really don't have a problem with where he's ranked as long as if he can't stay on the field. Matt Schuab <=> Chris Chandler
I wonder how the majority of people voted on this. Ability, or production. I think a lot of people are underestimating Schaub. If only he could stay healthy.
schaub has top 10 talent and if he stays healthy he can easily put a lot of doubters to rest. it's hard to rank him in that group right now until he proves it over the course of a season and preferably the playoffs. he's more in the 10-13 range than the ridiculous 26 though.
So by this logic should we reduce Brady to simply a lucky QB on teams with great defenses too? That's basically what you're implying here with Ben. Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Rivers all ahead of Ben? Seriously?! No Eli Manning either? No McNabb? Your list is puzzling, to say the very least.
I'm more suprised that Romo is #11. I think thats about right but with a Fan vote I thought he would defintely be in the top 5. Schaub should be around 15 if he can do what he did late in the year for a whole season that he should shoot up to maybe top 5. I wonder where an ESPN fan vote would land Slaton that would be a bigger joke
You're really going to compare what Brady does to what Ben does? Come on. And as far as ability, yeah those guys are before him. I may put Romo behind him because of his choking nature. Eli didn't do a whole lot, especially when Plax went out. So far his whole stardom is based on his name and one great run. I would take those other QBs before him. McNabb is pretty good, but not what he used to be. You ask me a couple of years ago and he is higher. Then again, so is Palmer. I'd still take him, but not over the guys I have before him.
I don't really buy that argument. With all due respect, you don't throw for 5000 yards on check-downs and screens. Take a look at his stats and you'll find that average yards per completion was 8.0... good for 2nd in the league. His completions over 20 yards (66) were by far the most in the league. Reggie Bush accounted for just 8% of his total passing yards. Plus he did most of this by spreading the ball around and Marques Colston was injured for the better part of the year.
Am I going to compare Ben to Brady? Absolutely and why wouldn't I? Every offense is different so relying solely on passing yardage and TD count is rather deceiving for comparison's sake. Passer rating and track record are the universal standards for which you can judge a QB and Ben undeniably tests out favorably. Is Brady better? Well, Brady is probably the best player in football and i'm not challenging that. All i'm saying is if you go by passer rating and accomplishments Ben stands out just as much as Brady does. Only, Brady is better. I'd challenge you to define "ability" but I already know how you'll answer that. Your gravitation towards the younger guys and fantasy football big number guys is pretty obvious. Unfortunately for Schaub, Cutler, Romo, Palmer, Rivers and whoever else you feel is "better" than Ben those guys have a combined what.....two playoff victories? Fantasy football certainly is fantasy for a reason. As for Eli, his M.O. is beating you in the 4th quarter. He doesn't dazzle you with numbers so it's understandable that he doesn't meet your fantasy football requirements but you simply can't put a price on intangibles. Eli is one of the most clutch QB's in the game.
Ben Roethlisberger gets the **** kicked out of him every game. His offensive line is built for ground and pound... then they lose Willie Parker and #1 pick Rashard Mendenhall. I watched the guy get killed in the pocket time and time again, get back up and in the final minute make the plays needed to win the game. What he accomplished this season despite his defense keeping him in most of the games and setting him up with a chance to win; was nothing short of spectacular. Toughest schedule in the league. You could say they were battle tested. Playing Baltimore 3 times in a season is no cake walk. I have tremendous respect for Big Ben and I think he's certainly 2nd tier in the league behind the two top guys (Manning, Brady)
Ben is up there, but you just said rating matters. The guys on my list all have pretty good ratings. Schaub's is better than Ben's. Yes he took a beating and still played. I'll give him that. You don't think that affects his play? If it does, its still his play. He is up there and I do put him in the second tier behind Brady and Manning, but there's an argument for guys ahead of him. Those other guys threw a lot more and did well. That should count for something. Not talking fantasy, talking how many chances do you take and how successful are you. As for Eli, man. That dude has gotten better, but is not in the top ten IMO. He's like Kerry Collins, where his team's success isn't all on him. The run game that they had definitely helped him out.
Passer rating is definitely important but making the point that Schaub had a better passer rating than Ben for one season and then using that as your evidence to slingshot Schaub into Ben's league is a pretty big 'homerism', IMO. In five seasons Ben has finished top five in passer rating three times. Something Schaub has yet to accomplish even once and that's placing aside all the other compelling and damaging 4th quarter and postseason evidence. Schaub is a very good, underrated player and I agree with the premise of this thread. People are wacky if they really feel he's the 26th best QB or overall talent in the league. He's better than a lot of people realize and you can almost hear the ESPN analysts proclaiming he's the "real deal" if/when the Texans have a breakout year. Until that happens though....... Kerry Collins isn't the 4th quarter/OT assassin Eli is. Don't get me wrong, I will gladly admit Eli's numbers are underwhelming. Hell, i've echoed similar sentiments myself. Still, you can't put a price on intangibles and Eli has the ability to take over a game in ways that only 2-3 other QB's on the planet can. For that reason he'll always be in my top five.
I can agree for the most part about Ben. Dude has the intangibles and has proved. Given this year's performance and what is asked of him, I have him lower. He's still in the top ten for me. As for Eli, he has made some good plays late, but I can't put him in the top ten. I feel like if you put one of the guys I have higher in his spot, they'll do pretty well. Even the rookie Flacco made some clutch plays, but I wouldn't put him higher than he is. Thats just me.
My opinion is that Matt is rated too low, right now he is an obvious top 20 QB. And he should be rated higher then Tony Romo and I like Romo's QB play when he isn't getting run around because the offensive line screws him over. Also Ben Roethlisberger is one of the top five QBs currently playing in the NFL, that shouldn't be a question. He might not be as prolific a passer as your Peyton Mannings or Tom Brady but for the damage he takes and how he manages the game, he definitely deserves credit. No Chad Pennington or Kerry Collins could have won that last Super Bowl for the Steelers. I mean other the senior Manning brother, Brady and maybe Kurt Warner (last season) not many QBs, I'd take over Roethlisberger based off their previous work.
Thats the problem staying healthy is a vauble part to ranking a player preformance. What good are your number equvilent towards a whole season if you cant stay on the field for a whole season.
